Brexit the Movie 31 - Now It Gets Really Heavy Watch

Vinny C
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#41
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#41
Never before has today in politics been so exciting. We should do this more often.
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nulli tertius
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#42
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I don't think the programme motion stands any chance of passing

This is the Bill

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...00007_en_1.htm

and these are the explanatory notes

https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../20007en01.htm

MPs are going to want to spend far longer on the detail of this.
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Vinny C
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1993... six Tory Eurosceptics launched us into a dead end wall. And still we bow and kneel to the ERG god... some 30 ****ing extremists are trying to call all the shots in Parliament in case you haven't noticed!
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Vinny C
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#44
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#44
And Parliament is biting back...
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nulli tertius
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#45
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Ken Clarke’s Customs Union amendment is clever and may well pass if it attracts Lab, Lib and SNP front bench support.

It doesn’t breach the WA; it simply makes getting a UK wide Customs Union with the EU a negotiating objective in the next stage of talks.

As well as Cooper and Soubry, it has got several of the Labour Leavers such as De Piero, Kinnock and Onn onboard.

If it passes the ERG might kill the Bill at 3rd Reading (if it ever gets that far).
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Fullofsurprises
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#46
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Ken Clarke’s Customs Union amendment is clever and may well pass if it attracts Lab, Lib and SNP front bench support.

It doesn’t breach the WA; it simply makes getting a UK wide Customs Union with the EU a negotiating objective in the next stage of talks.

As well as Cooper and Soubry, it has got several of the Labour Leavers such as De Piero, Kinnock and Onn onboard.

If it passes the ERG might kill the Bill at 3rd Reading (if it ever gets that far).
Yes, it will be fascinating to see if this passes.

The consensus amongst media hacks this morning on the radio/TV appears to be that the bill will pass 1st reading today, but will need to be withdrawn after that for substantial rewrites and possibly further negotiations with the EU, so a longish extension is now inevitable.

I can imagine something might pass if it had staying in the CU written into it, as eventually Lab will have to bite some viable bullet if they are not going to be devastated in a general election.
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Fullofsurprises
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#47
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#47
"MPs had more time to debate the Wild Animals in Circuses Act (affecting 19 animals) than they will to decide the future of 65 million people."

--- tweet by Caroline Lucas this morning
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Rakas21
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Ken Clarke’s Customs Union amendment is clever and may well pass if it attracts Lab, Lib and SNP front bench support.

It doesn’t breach the WA; it simply makes getting a UK wide Customs Union with the EU a negotiating objective in the next stage of talks.

As well as Cooper and Soubry, it has got several of the Labour Leavers such as De Piero, Kinnock and Onn onboard.

If it passes the ERG might kill the Bill at 3rd Reading (if it ever gets that far).
Last time the cabinet had been ordered to abstain on it but should follow Boris now and a lot of Tory remainers have said they won’t vote for it even though they did last time so it looks to me like customs and a neverendum will fail.


The wrecker if it fails will be the paving motion on the time, Boris would almost certainly have to pull the deal, accept a multi-month extension and argue this out through an election.
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Fullofsurprises
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#49
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Peter Foster at the Telegraph highlighting that Benn is correct that the current Bill means the government can leave with no deal and no extension next year and to make matters worse, they would then owe another 10bn Euros!
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status...e-eu-live-news
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Rakas21)
The wrecker if it fails will be the paving motion on the time, Boris would almost certainly have to pull the deal, accept a multi-month extension and argue this out through an election.
Good, because it's increasingly clear that the bill as it stands is an utter dog's breakfast.

It will be a shame that it will be a single-issue general election, but at least that's within our constitutional norms and not a shameless demagogic referendum allowing foreign powers to manipulate us at will.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Good, because it's increasingly clear that the bill as it stands is an utter dog's breakfast.

It will be a shame that it will be a single-issue general election, but at least that's within our constitutional norms and not a shameless demagogic referendum allowing foreign powers to manipulate us at will.
Although my preference is to leave in the 31st (though I agree that we have given too much in this deal) I would not be saddened at an election beforehand, we need an opportunity to give the Tories a majority of at least 30.
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Burton Bridge
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#52
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(Original post by Vinny C)
1993... six Tory Eurosceptics launched us into a dead end wall. And still we bow and kneel to the ERG god... some 30 ****ing extremists are trying to call all the shots in Parliament in case you haven't noticed!
Again vinny, you are completely wrong.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Ken Clarke’s Customs Union amendment is clever and may well pass if it attracts Lab, Lib and SNP front bench support.

It doesn’t breach the WA; it simply makes getting a UK wide Customs Union with the EU a negotiating objective in the next stage of talks.

As well as Cooper and Soubry, it has got several of the Labour Leavers such as De Piero, Kinnock and Onn onboard.

If it passes the ERG might kill the Bill at 3rd Reading (if it ever gets that far).
Does that not kill of any trade talks around the world and kill of any potential benefits of Brexit?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Does that not kill of any trade talks around the world and kill of any potential benefits of Brexit?
The benefits from Brexit are the ability to change law domestically in my opinion (i'm surprised at such a pro-free trade mindset from you) but yes, a customs union would for the most part render our own international trade policy mute since any negotiations would be done by the EU as a whole (including having to pander to the protectionists on things like agriculture).
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Does that not kill of any trade talks around the world and kill of any potential benefits of Brexit?
Trade talks around the world leading to potential benefits are a fantasy. The EU already has trade deals with all major players that are far more advantageous than anything the UK could do as a solo country, given the disparity in power between the UK and other major countries and blocs. All serious experts are agreed that there is only one way for the UK economy to go post-Brexit and that is down.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I can imagine something might pass if it had staying in the CU written into it, as eventually Lab will have to bite some viable bullet if they are not going to be devastated in a general election.
This is true, they could that as a fake we amended it to save workers jobs, dispite already turning down a brexit deal that had even closer relationship with Europe.

I do agree tho, we need to back our brexit promises up soon.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Trade talks around the world leading to potential benefits are a fantasy. The EU already has trade deals with all major players that are far more advantageous than anything the UK could do as a solo country, given the disparity in power between the UK and other major countries and blocs. All serious experts are agreed that there is only one way for the UK economy to go post-Brexit and that is down.
That's you're opinion and the opinion of some economic "experts" who have been wrong before but still call themselves experts

Trade deals around the world will be a fantasy if the EU blocks us from negotiating any, why would parliament wish to enable the EU to do this post brexit?
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Does that not kill of any trade talks around the world and kill of any potential benefits of Brexit?
There are no economic benefits of Brexit. Brexit is accepting a worsened economic position in return for an increased degree of control over social and economic change, much of which is likely to prove illusory. The reason it will prove illusory is because the EU has been reflecting rather than being the driver of that change and the forces driving that change won't go away if and when we leave the EU.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
There are no economic benefits of Brexit. Brexit is accepting a worsened economic position in return for an increased degree of control over social and economic change, much of which is likely to prove illusory. The reason it will prove illusory is because the EU has been reflecting rather than being the driver of that change and the forces driving that change won't go away if and when we leave the EU.
Again that is your opinion, it's not necessarily fact and even if this turns out to be true and complete fact are we not handing a golden key to the likes of Farage and co by adding these amendments? In a way we are playing into their hands giving them a reason to say this happened because of the remainers no allowing a true brexit.
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Fullofsurprises
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#60
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#60
Looks like the usual suspects in Labour's shadow cabinet are blocking poor Keir Starmer's attempts to bolt a second referendum amendment on. The alter-Marxists of London Labour Briefing (last met: 1976) will not be moved from their comradely positions supporting the decisions of the SWP and the Maoist International, siblings! :lol:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-labour-brexit

When we plunge into the abyss in a few year's time and worker conditions and employment fall off a cliff, it will be as much these creeps as anyone in the ERG or Boris/Cummings pack of professional liars that we will have to thank for it.
Last edited by Fullofsurprises; 3 weeks ago
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