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Why are pharmacists payed so bad????
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hahaha, so wait, if you have flu you go to the doctor, most of the public in this country would know what to take without going to see anyone. You don't need to have a mbbs degree to treat yourself for flu do you?
member9876
hahaha, so wait, if you have flu you go to the doctor, most of the public in this country would know what to take without going to see anyone. You don't need to have a mbbs degree to treat yourself for flu do you?
Hi, try re-reading what I wrote. Not a cold, above a cold. Now the rest of my post please.
Hey Crazster, you seem to have a lot of strong opinions on this subject, are you a student? , a graduate?, what?
My opinion is this, community pharmacists are there as a CCP ( critical control point ) Most of the time it's a thankless task, but the one time your doctor prescribes you a drug that conflicts with another drug you are taking, and could possibly kill you, you'll be glad we were there.
My opinion is this, community pharmacists are there as a CCP ( critical control point ) Most of the time it's a thankless task, but the one time your doctor prescribes you a drug that conflicts with another drug you are taking, and could possibly kill you, you'll be glad we were there.
DRWHO2
Hey Crazster, you seem to have a lot of strong opinions on this subject, are you a student? , a graduate?, what?
My opinion is this, community pharmacists are there as a CCP ( critical control point ) Most of the time it's a thankless task, but the one time your doctor prescribes you a drug that conflicts with another drug you are taking, and could possibly kill you, you'll be glad we were there.
My opinion is this, community pharmacists are there as a CCP ( critical control point ) Most of the time it's a thankless task, but the one time your doctor prescribes you a drug that conflicts with another drug you are taking, and could possibly kill you, you'll be glad we were there.
Thats great, you are a point on the chain, but a backup rather then a critical system. Pay is appropiate to this position. This appears to be the same way an flow trader has his actions monitored by risk management. Trading pays much more then risk management.
Does it matter if i'm a student? Or a graduate? Don't really believe so (but my sig should provide enlightenment).
Irrelevance
Yeah, but aren't you technicially still studying because you have to sit an exam at the end? Or does the "studying" thing finish when you're out of your degree?
You've graduated so you're no longer a student. I got 2 and a half hours study a week, which was subject to how busy the department was.
Being a pre-reg is weird. One day you'll be grafting hard in the dispensary or on the wards like everyone else and the next you'll be on a study day or shadowing someone and still getting paid the same.
Crazster
my theory is simple. Pharmacists do not diagnose me, do not treat me. All they do is sell me drugs like a shop keeper. Maybe it takes a bit of training to be sure that they sell the right things in the right amounts etc but in the end its the doctors/dentists I go to heal my body. I would never be satisfied with a place where pharmacists get the same as a doctor/dentist.
Ha. There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. Sell you drugs like a shop keeper? Well shop keepers should be selling drugs unless they are general sales lists so obviously pharmacists must have something over a shop keeper in order to sell you pharmacy only medicines. But hmmm yes pharmacists train for 5 years to learn how to work a till and run a shop ... of course they do.
Crazster
The dispensary in a hospital is not manned by doctors, but by pharmacists. It could be in a shopping mall for all the difference it makes. its just extra income for the hospital.
The dispensary in a hospital is not manned by doctors, but by pharmacists. It could be in a shopping mall for all the difference it makes. its just extra income for the hospital.
Well of course it's not manned by doctors
talk about stating the obvious. There is so much more to hospital pharmacy than the dispensary. I like how you stated that after asking what hospital pharmacy actually was! There's a lot of ignorance about what pharmacists do ...
-Emmz-
Ha. There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. Sell you drugs like a shop keeper? Well shop keepers should be selling drugs unless they are general sales lists so obviously pharmacists must have something over a shop keeper in order to sell you pharmacy only medicines. But hmmm yes pharmacists train for 5 years to learn how to work a till and run a shop ... of course they do.
They don't train to be doctors. They should be paid more then normal shop keepers but they arn't doctors.
Well of course it's not manned by doctors talk about stating the obvious. There is so much more to hospital pharmacy than the dispensary. I like how you stated that after asking what hospital pharmacy actually was!
There's a lot of ignorance about what pharmacists do ...
The obvious needed to be stated. Apparently pharmacists should be paid like doctors. They could if they needed to, could a pharmacist be a doctor? Clarification is never wrong, especially since where I go they call it outpatients (and no one so far has told me they are any different... this thread included). However if you wish, I can start using less well known words that will have you bringing out the dictionary (SAT ftw) but it would change nothing other then prove the idiocy of this ad hominem attack. "There's so much wrong" "they do so much more".. Here's your chance you have my post and you have those statements - follow through on them.
They don't train to be doctors. They should be paid more then normal shop keepers but they arn't doctors.
Well of course it's not manned by doctors
talk about stating the obvious. There is so much more to hospital pharmacy than the dispensary. I like how you stated that after asking what hospital pharmacy actually was! There's a lot of ignorance about what pharmacists do ...
The obvious needed to be stated. Apparently pharmacists should be paid like doctors. They could if they needed to, could a pharmacist be a doctor? Clarification is never wrong, especially since where I go they call it outpatients (and no one so far has told me they are any different... this thread included). However if you wish, I can start using less well known words that will have you bringing out the dictionary (SAT ftw) but it would change nothing other then prove the idiocy of this ad hominem attack. "There's so much wrong" "they do so much more".. Here's your chance you have my post and you have those statements - follow through on them.
aaa
I didn't say pharmacists were doctors - I know pharmacists and doctors do different jobs. However you compared pharmacists to shop keepers. I have also never said in this thread (or any other) that pharmacists should be paid the same as doctors.
No, pharmacists could not be doctors (without further training) but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this point? A doctor couldn't be a pharmacist either (without further training).
Do you think a hospital employs numerous pharmacists so they can all sit in the outpatients pharmacy?
As you seem to think pharmacists are locked in the dispensary during in working hours lets start with what they do there. Now, not all hospital pharmacies sell over the counter medicines so there goes your shop keeper theory. Firstly a pharmacist must clinically screen all prescriptions that come into the pharmacy (outpatient, inpatient or discharge). Clinically screen means to check that everything is appropriate with the prescription for that particular patient, there are no drug interactions etc. If there are any problems they have to sort them out. Once the prescriptions has been labelled or dispensed then a pharmacist may accuracy check it ... but many hospitals have technicians who are accredited to do this.
You'll also find hospital pharmacists working in aseptic preparation of things such as total parental nutrition (TPN) or cytotoxics. The pharmacists role here is to oversee everything that is going on, they have to check all the formulas before the product is made, they have to check all the things used in the making and they have to assess sign the products off at the end and thus they are taking responsibility for it. Some hospitals will also have radiopharmacists who are involved in the preparation of radiopharmaceuticals.
Hospital pharmacists also work in a place called Medicines Information. This is a place that healthcare professionals (within and outside the hospital) and patients (in some) can contact with queries regarding medicines and the pharmacist (usually with the help of a medicines information technician) researches the queries before getting back to the enquirer with an answer.
Now, on the wards pharmacists do lots of things. They clinically check the medication charts of all patients on their wards to make sure everything is appropriate. They keep and eye of things like renal function and liver function and make sure the doctors are told of any drugs that need a dosage change. They make sure, through talking to the patient/phoning a GP/nursing home etc. that each patient has a complete and accurate drug history as is prescribed their regular medicines if appropriate. They advise the nurses on how to give medicines and answer other queries they may have. They advise the doctors on prescribing choices. They basically do whatever it means to make sure each patient's medication is appropriate for them. Many pharmacist also join multidisciplinary team meetings where the doctors, nurses, physios etc meet to discuss patients and plan their care.
You'll also find pharmacists in lots of clinics run by the hospitals, for example HIV or haematology. Some pharmacists (who have done further training) prescribe either supplementary or independently.
Just to reiterate - I'm not trying to argue pharmacists should get paid as much as doctors. I am not trying to argue at all. I am merely trying to dismiss the misconception that pharmacists are pill counting shopkeepers.
Use your big words if you wish but I am pretty confident I know more about pharmacy than you do.
No, pharmacists could not be doctors (without further training) but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this point? A doctor couldn't be a pharmacist either (without further training).
Do you think a hospital employs numerous pharmacists so they can all sit in the outpatients pharmacy?
As you seem to think pharmacists are locked in the dispensary during in working hours lets start with what they do there. Now, not all hospital pharmacies sell over the counter medicines so there goes your shop keeper theory. Firstly a pharmacist must clinically screen all prescriptions that come into the pharmacy (outpatient, inpatient or discharge). Clinically screen means to check that everything is appropriate with the prescription for that particular patient, there are no drug interactions etc. If there are any problems they have to sort them out. Once the prescriptions has been labelled or dispensed then a pharmacist may accuracy check it ... but many hospitals have technicians who are accredited to do this.
You'll also find hospital pharmacists working in aseptic preparation of things such as total parental nutrition (TPN) or cytotoxics. The pharmacists role here is to oversee everything that is going on, they have to check all the formulas before the product is made, they have to check all the things used in the making and they have to assess sign the products off at the end and thus they are taking responsibility for it. Some hospitals will also have radiopharmacists who are involved in the preparation of radiopharmaceuticals.
Hospital pharmacists also work in a place called Medicines Information. This is a place that healthcare professionals (within and outside the hospital) and patients (in some) can contact with queries regarding medicines and the pharmacist (usually with the help of a medicines information technician) researches the queries before getting back to the enquirer with an answer.
Now, on the wards pharmacists do lots of things. They clinically check the medication charts of all patients on their wards to make sure everything is appropriate. They keep and eye of things like renal function and liver function and make sure the doctors are told of any drugs that need a dosage change. They make sure, through talking to the patient/phoning a GP/nursing home etc. that each patient has a complete and accurate drug history as is prescribed their regular medicines if appropriate. They advise the nurses on how to give medicines and answer other queries they may have. They advise the doctors on prescribing choices. They basically do whatever it means to make sure each patient's medication is appropriate for them. Many pharmacist also join multidisciplinary team meetings where the doctors, nurses, physios etc meet to discuss patients and plan their care.
You'll also find pharmacists in lots of clinics run by the hospitals, for example HIV or haematology. Some pharmacists (who have done further training) prescribe either supplementary or independently.
Just to reiterate - I'm not trying to argue pharmacists should get paid as much as doctors. I am not trying to argue at all. I am merely trying to dismiss the misconception that pharmacists are pill counting shopkeepers.
Use your big words if you wish but I am pretty confident I know more about pharmacy than you do.
he won't have any big words emmz, he knows NOTHING.
Crazster
Thats great, you are a point on the chain, but a backup rather then a critical system. Pay is appropiate to this position. This appears to be the same way an flow trader has his actions monitored by risk management. Trading pays much more then risk management.
Does it matter if i'm a student? Or a graduate? Don't really believe so (but my sig should provide enlightenment).
Does it matter if i'm a student? Or a graduate? Don't really believe so (but my sig should provide enlightenment).
Risk management did a bang up job at Bearings Bank, Societe Generale, northern rock and Bear Stearns as well as a host of others.
-Emmz-
Lol yeah. I wonder how far all the patients would get if they had no medicines to take ...
I wonder how many patients would die, or be admitted to hospital with a medicine related illness, because a pharmacist did not clinically check an Rx.
Its people like Crazster who are going to prevent the NHS from progressing and trying to reduce health inequalities by increasing access to health care. Pharmacists play a very necessary role within hospital, and an increasingly important role within the community setting. There would also be a very limited amount of new medicines being released if pharmacists were not involved.
Oh well, back to the shoe shining we go eh?
p.s The only troll i spy in this thread is Crazster. Don't let him get to you DRWHO2.
TigerSwift
I wonder how many patients would die, or be admitted to hospital with a medicine related illness, because a pharmacist did not clinically check an Rx.
And there won't be a pharmacist in the hospital so it all starts again ... vicious circle.
Look at it this way; air traffic controllers are NOT pilots. However, I wouldn't fancy flying without having them there.
In the same manner, I am a pharmacist. I know I am not a doctor, I have tremendous respect for the doctors I work with both in terms of the hours they are expected to work (night/on call etc) and I wouldn't fancy doing equivalent hours. I know they are under a sharper focus from patients, and relatives in particular and have to give out bad news which can innevitably be difficult.
I do know that I am valued by the nurses and doctors I work with though both as a source of information before they act to prescribe/administer a drug and also to explain medicines to the patients, so they are not left in the dark (this is something doctors are particularly bad at).
I don't expect the same pay as doctors, but I do like recognition for the fact I have studied for 5 years and know an awful lot about not just medicines but healthcare in general.
Jimmocrates
Hospital Pharmacist
In the same manner, I am a pharmacist. I know I am not a doctor, I have tremendous respect for the doctors I work with both in terms of the hours they are expected to work (night/on call etc) and I wouldn't fancy doing equivalent hours. I know they are under a sharper focus from patients, and relatives in particular and have to give out bad news which can innevitably be difficult.
I do know that I am valued by the nurses and doctors I work with though both as a source of information before they act to prescribe/administer a drug and also to explain medicines to the patients, so they are not left in the dark (this is something doctors are particularly bad at).
I don't expect the same pay as doctors, but I do like recognition for the fact I have studied for 5 years and know an awful lot about not just medicines but healthcare in general.
Jimmocrates
Hospital Pharmacist
Look at it this way; air traffic controllers are NOT pilots. However, I wouldn't fancy flying without having them there.
In the same manner, I am a pharmacist. I know I am not a doctor, I have tremendous respect for the doctors I work with both in terms of the hours they are expected to work (night/on call etc) and I wouldn't fancy doing equivalent hours. I know they are under a sharper focus from patients, and relatives in particular and have to give out bad news which can innevitably be difficult.
I do know that I am valued by the nurses and doctors I work with though both as a source of information before they act to prescribe/administer a drug and also to explain medicines to the patients, so they are not left in the dark (this is something doctors are particularly bad at).
I don't expect the same pay as doctors, but I do like recognition for the fact I have studied for 5 years and know an awful lot about not just medicines but healthcare in general.
Jimmocrates
Hospital Pharmacist
In the same manner, I am a pharmacist. I know I am not a doctor, I have tremendous respect for the doctors I work with both in terms of the hours they are expected to work (night/on call etc) and I wouldn't fancy doing equivalent hours. I know they are under a sharper focus from patients, and relatives in particular and have to give out bad news which can innevitably be difficult.
I do know that I am valued by the nurses and doctors I work with though both as a source of information before they act to prescribe/administer a drug and also to explain medicines to the patients, so they are not left in the dark (this is something doctors are particularly bad at).
I don't expect the same pay as doctors, but I do like recognition for the fact I have studied for 5 years and know an awful lot about not just medicines but healthcare in general.
Jimmocrates
Hospital Pharmacist
Hi,
Jim that was the best post ive seen in this whole thread, very well put. I guess thats the point im trying to get at, people think dentists and doctors are at the top (which i agree) however when they mention pharmacists they dont get the same respect even thoguh they pretty much know what a doctor knows or has to know however are not qualified to implement it on patients wherea doctors are. i also believe pharmacists shouldnt get same salary as doctors or dentists however they need to get more recognition as they are also key players in the healthcare system (close to doctors) , i believe at the moment they are not respected on the same level as indicated on these threads by people. The reason i was saying they need increase in salary is becuase as they increase dentiasts wage to ridiculous amount they should not forget about the impact its going to have on other professions shuch as pharmacists and nurses as they will feel more undervalued. There isnt a fair balance in recognition and the salary differance proves this.
I heard that there was meant to be annual pay rise in 08 but that didn't occur due to category m cuts?
There was a pay rise implemented this year. I believe it's somewhere in the region of 2.5% (staged), which is better than a kick in the teeth, but figures banded around for baseline inflation rates show that isnt great.
still, i like the job all the same
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=766
still, i like the job all the same
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=766
yeh without a doubt its a very good job.
What point does a pre reg start out on then and how often do you go up?
What point does a pre reg start out on then and how often do you go up?
member9876
yeh without a doubt its a very good job.
What point does a pre reg start out on then and how often do you go up?
What point does a pre reg start out on then and how often do you go up?
I think it's band 5 as a pre-reg then band 6 when u qualify?
Gregorian IV
I think it's band 5 as a pre-reg then band 6 when u qualify?
Yup, unless you become a resident pharmacist when you qualify - then you can get band 7!
how would you get that?
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