QE2
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
If there is an afterlife then he has now discovered that Islam was a lie all along and that he fought his entire life for nothing :woo: :dance:
Ah, but if there is an afterlife as described by Islam, he will be having a jolly old time with his mansions and wine and transparent sex drones, while the non-Muslims he beheaded are being tortured in hell.
Something for all those who favour such a concept to think about.
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QE2
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Because obviously you have died and come back to life
So given that you haven't died and come back to life either, you admit that there might not be an afterlife of any kind, let alone one that matches Islam's description rather than that of any other belief.
Glad you cleared that up.
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ACherry
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Bang Outta Order)
I'm confused. They know who the leader is and won't kill them...USA has a defense budget that per dollar is almost as much as the UK population per person like 60 million...and can't just gun this dood down execution style...?


So he's either a mythological creature used to boogeyman everyone against the eastern world, or the western world is more corrupt than Isis is letting him stay alive when ...they know exactly who he is to be claiming they killed him in the first place...I don't keep up with the news because issa bunch of bull ****. So IDK who he is..
You seem to have close to no understanding of military operations and intelligence, in that case. Also, admitting you don't keep up with the news because 'issa bunch of bull ****t' and you don't even know the leader of ISIS' name isn't helping your argument at all...
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QE2
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Cryoraptor)
I find it funny how in a thread about a leader of the worst terrorist group of this century being announced dead, this is the only post you make.
I'm not going to be quick to judge but this does not make you look very good at all
Given that ISIS merely follow a literalist, retentionist interpretation of Islam and reject any attempts to modernise, moderate or assimilate Islam with modern, liberal, democratic societies - there are likely some Muslims on here who see nothing wrong with him and see his actions, while unfortunate, as justifiable.
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mgi
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#65
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#65
Yes, Karma bites back again!
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QE2
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
, and his overhyped crackpot group are mostly dead and have been largely insignificant in comparison to state terror, in my opinion, which has claimed and harmed far more lives and played a substantial part in the rise of ISIS in the first place;
So you'd rather condemn western agency actions than the actions of ISIS. Quelle surprise!

The guy is dead, his affair is over and it is now between him and God
on the other hand, having digs at the general religious beliefs which are still shared by other Muslims is not something I will stay quiet about.
Do you think that Baghdadi will end up in paradise or in hell? (*Expects equivocation like "that is up to Allah, not me"*. I'm asking what you think, not what Allah will do. ...*Still expecting you to avoid the question*.)
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Plantagenet Crown
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#67
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#67
(Original post by QE2)
Ah, but if there is an afterlife as described by Islam, he will be having a jolly old time with his mansions and wine and transparent sex drones, while the non-Muslims he beheaded are being tortured in hell.
Something for all those who favour such a concept to think about.
Islam can be argued to be false as shown by the errors in the Quran,
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ACherry
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
The guy is dead, his affair is over and it is now between him and God, and his overhyped crackpot group are mostly dead and have been largely insignificant in comparison to state terror, in my opinion, which has claimed and harmed far more lives and played a substantial part in the rise of ISIS in the first place; on the other hand, having digs at the general religious beliefs which are still shared by other Muslims is not something I will stay quiet about.
This is what's known as 'downplaying'...
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QE2
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Religious factors were a vehicle and the socio-political factors a rocket-fuel for their rise. If there was no Iraq War, there would be no ISIS - that is a fact.
If there was still an Iraq war, but no Islam, there would be no ISIS - that is a fact.
Therefore Islam is more of a contributory factor to the specific actions of ISIS than socio-political factors.
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adam271
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#70
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#70
People always seem to blow this out this news out of proportion. (Pun not intended)

He died a martyr.
Killing the leaders of terrorist organisations has been going on for a while in the Middle East with little success.
what we need to do is stop people from joining the organisation to begin. By making it less appealing. For example we should never have fought the Taliban. How many of them turned to Isis or Al-Qaeda.
I wonder to how many kurds may turn to these organisations after being betrayed.
Last edited by adam271; 1 month ago
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mgi
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#71
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#71
(Original post by QE2)
So you'd rather condemn western agency actions than the actions of ISIS. Quelle surprise!


Do you think that Baghdadi will end up in paradise or in hell? (*Expects equivocation like "that is up to Allah, not me"*. I'm asking what you think, not what Allah will do. ...*Still expecting you to avoid the question*.)
You are guaranteed to get some very evasive answers. Let's see who could justify Bagdhadi continuing his reign of terror by using the stupid and sterile argument like: " 3 wrongs make a right! Therefore, by implucation, one should overlook evil and the killing of innocent people in Manchester! Did not Shamima Begum make a similar facile argument and now wants to come back to live in Britain!
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QE2
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
9/11 was not linked to Iraq at all - that was Afghanistan lmfao

Can't believe 3 people repped your post :facepalm2:
It is incredibly naive to think that 9/11 had no effect on subsequent events in the Middle East. Immediately following the attack, Rumsfeld proposed attacking Iraq. I guess that you'll claim that was coincidence.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/plans-f...began-on-9-11/
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ACherry
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#73
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#73
(Original post by adam271)
People always seem to blow this out this news out of proportion. (Pun not intended)

He died a martyr.
Killing the leaders of terrorist organisations has been going on for a while in the Middle East with little success.
what we need to do is stop people from joining the organisation to begin. By making it less appealing. For example we should never have fought the Taliban. How many of them turned to Isis or Al-Qaeda.
I wonder to how many kurds may turn to these organisations after being betrayed.
If you allow groups like the Taliban to grow, then you'll have a much, much worse situation on your hands.

Also, no Kurds are going to join ISIS or Al-Qaeda. That's a slanderous and disgusting suggestion.
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xxlaila03xx
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Because obviously you have died and come back to life

oof
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xxlaila03xx
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#75
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#75
(Original post by QE2)
It is incredibly naive to think that 9/11 had no effect on subsequent events in the Middle East. Immediately following the attack, Rumsfeld proposed attacking Iraq. I guess that you'll claim that was coincidence.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/plans-f...began-on-9-11/
Yeah they attacked Iraq but 9/11 was nothing to do with Iraq. Bin Laden was Pakistani?
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QE2
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Jebedee)
Isis leader? Don't you mean long respected Islamic scholar? That's what WaPo told me anyway.
He did have a PhD in Islamic Studies from the university of Baghdad, and tens of thousands of devout Muslims looked upon to him as their spiritual leader, so not far wrong.
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xxlaila03xx
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
Islam is 100% false as shown by the errors in the Quran, so we can be certain he isn't boning 72 sexbots in rivers of milk
Allah does not reward murderers.
Also plant man, if you knew so much about Islam, you'd know that we only go to heaven and hell after the day of judgement. The supposed ISIS leader that they've killed (they've killed him 15 times now) will be suffering in his grave.
Last edited by xxlaila03xx; 1 month ago
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QE2
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#78
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#78
(Original post by xxlaila03xx)
Yeah they attacked Iraq but 9/11 was nothing to do with Iraq.
The US used it as an excuse to instigate planning an invasion.

Bin Laden was Pakistani?
He was Saudi Arabian - from a wealthy and privileged family.
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QE2
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#79
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#79
(Original post by xxlaila03xx)
Allah does not reward murderers.
"Murder" is "unlawful killing". If a killing is permitted by law, it cannot be murder. To ISIS, only Allah's law counts.
Muhammad carried out or ordered killings that would be classed as "murder" by modern standards. Do you think he was a "murderer"?
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xxlaila03xx
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#80
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#80
(Original post by QE2)
Given that ISIS merely follow a literalist, retentionist interpretation of Islam and reject any attempts to modernise, moderate or assimilate Islam with modern, liberal, democratic societies - there are likely some Muslims on here who see nothing wrong with him and see his actions, while unfortunate, as justifiable.
Not very accurate, I'm surprised old man, I thought you'd know better. ISIS kills Muslims too. Most of their victims are Muslim. So no, I don't think you'd be able to find one Muslim that finds his actions forgiveable:

“You would soon conquer Egypt and that is a land which is known (as the land of al-qirat). So when you conquer it, treat its inhabitants well. For there lies upon you the responsibility because of blood-tie or relationship of marriage (with them).”
Sahih Muslim Book 31, Hadith 6174


"Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of travelling).”
Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 83, Hadith 49


"The protection granted by Muslims is one and must be respected by the humblest of them. And he who broke the covenant made by a Muslim, there is a curse of Allah, of his angels, and of the whole people upon him, and neither an obligatory act nor a supererogatory act would be accepted from him as recompense on the Day of Resurrection."
Sahih Muslim, Book 7, Hadith 3167

"Whoever wrongs one with whom a covenant has been made, burdens him with more than he can bear or forcibly takes something from him, I will be his adversary on the Day of Judgment,"
as narrated by Sawfan Ibn Sulaim through a number of the Companions' children [30 narrators according to the version of Ibn Zangawiyah and al-Baihaqi] who directly narrated from their fathers. [Recorded by Abu Dawud in his Sunan, Ibn Zangawiyah in Al-Amwal and al-Baihaqi in As-Sunan Al-Kubra]

Then the Quran itself:
“[w]hoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.”
5:32


“And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."
6:151


“There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong.”
2:256


“And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.”
8:61


“O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.”
5:8


“Indeed, those who have believed [in Prophet Muhammad] and those [before Him] who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.”
5:69
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