Knife Crime Watch

andy5788
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#1
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Obviously quite a controversial topic atm, just wondering what everyone on here thought about it.

Is it as bad as it is currently portrayed in the press? How should we go about reducing incidences of knife crime? Have you ever carried a knife?

My broad view is that we should very sharply divide the debate about why people carry knives, and why people use knives. Many carry simply through a (statisically disproven) belief that it will make them safer. Just as many Americans carry guns for similar reasons. For people who don't live in areas where there is a large threat of violence (judges, politicians etc) to propose locking up people who are really only trying to protect themselves seems, to my mind, extrememly unfair. HOWEVER we clearly need to do something. What, I honestly don't know...

Like I say, just interested to hear peoples opinions. Especially since (a fact which is often forgotten is press coverage) most of us are presumably in the demographic statistically at highest risk of being attacked.
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olly_springs
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Apparently there was another stabbing on tuesday. I only read about it today on the BBC website, but only got to about the third paragraph before getting bored - it showed me just how common this is.

Something drastic needs to be done before it becomes just another part of our society, but I'm not going to suggest what should be done, as I really don't know.

In my opinion, much of the proposed solutions are put forward by emotional people in desperation (although quite understandable), and are unlikely to even work.

For instance, "we should ban all knives" - how on earth would we peel carrots?? (in fact, you could just use a peeler, but you get the idea).
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Bornstubborn
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I think if the government wants to stop these problems then they have to dig a lot deeper.

Most of the children involved in these crimes come from Afro-Caribean backgrounds where they have few job prospects and often come from single parent homes.

So clearly the starting point should be trying to address the problem of broken homes in this community, creating male role models for children from broken homes and increasing the job prospects for these kids.

I think sport could be a great method of stopping these crimes. If you get these kids involved with sporting programs, they will get a male role model, learn discipline and it will keep them busy. While possible making future sports champions.

Regarding job prospects they could enroll these kids on more vocational programs perhaps ibn building or engineering, rather than English class or Science. These kids do not perform well in academic environments but they could get a good job from vocational training.

If these measures were coupled with preventitive policing the knife crime would be much less likely to happen.

To finish the program off there should be tough sentence's for anyone caught with a knife and very long sentence's for anyone who attacks someone with a knife.

Just my opinion.
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Captain Obvious
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Knives can be dangerous!
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1721
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agree with stubborn guy.
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andy5788
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To finish the program off there should be tough sentence's for anyone caught with a knife and very long sentence's for anyone who attacks someone with a knife.
You see here is where I'm not sure. Tough sentences for those who use knives definitely. But I can't help but think locking up people for carrying is just penalising many who are simply trying to protect themselves. Everyone I know who has carried a weapon has done so out of a fear for their own personal safety. So I wonder if we wouldn't just be criminalising even more people unnecessarily. On the other hand though the message needs to be gotten through that carrying one is simply not on, so I really don't know..
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Bornstubborn
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andy, there are plenty of weapons you can carry for protection that are not knives.... and no, not a gun.
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Adam83
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andy, u r spot on.
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mfm89
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All about poverty of aspiration. They have **** all to look up for or to. The only people who appear to have the ideal lifestyle are the drug dealers. Legalising drugs would be a start. Then long term, better housing, education flexible to peoples learning style-more vocational, combine that with both better community-police relations and targeted policing.
I cant see longer sentencing doing a whole lot.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by mfm89)
Then long term, better housing.
Its not the houses killing people. There's only one reason palces with nicer housing are better to live, its because you have to buy them to live there.

Long prison sentence's get these people away from decent people, its punishment for crime and it deters others.
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nothingspek
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(Original post by Captain Obvious)
Knives can be dangerous!
Really? :eek:
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andy5788
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Long prison sentence's get these people away from decent people, its punishment for crime and it deters others.
You reckon? I'm honestly not that convinced prison as a deterrent works all that well. It certainly doesn't seem to in the US, where custodial sentences are far more common and usually much harsher than ours.
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kinglrb
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Yeah I agree that this has to be dealt with but the government has to do soemthing big about this, some people are just too damn stubborn. Young people always have the sense of fear and the need to protect themselves. This can be done but it doesn't mean you have to carry a knife.

I think the government should have public gyms or for everyone or if thats no possible they should give free gym memberships to the people that are not so well off. It does sound cheesy but alot of people dont use the gym because they cant afford but if it was free alot more could use the gyms. I have a couple of mates who always feared for the safety but after they start hitting the gym up they feel alot more safer.
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Captain Obvious
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(Original post by nothingspek)
Really? :eek:
Yes, really!
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allieRAWR!
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I think if the government wants to stop these problems then they have to dig a lot deeper.

Most of the children involved in these crimes come from Afro-Caribean backgrounds where they have few job prospects and often come from single parent homes.

So clearly the starting point should be trying to address the problem of broken homes in this community, creating male role models for children from broken homes and increasing the job prospects for these kids.

I think sport could be a great method of stopping these crimes. If you get these kids involved with sporting programs, they will get a male role model, learn discipline and it will keep them busy. While possible making future sports champions.

Regarding job prospects they could enroll these kids on more vocational programs perhaps ibn building or engineering, rather than English class or Science. These kids do not perform well in academic environments but they could get a good job from vocational training.

If these measures were coupled with preventitive policing the knife crime would be much less likely to happen.

To finish the program off there should be tough sentence's for anyone caught with a knife and very long sentence's for anyone who attacks someone with a knife.

Just my opinion.
Based on what statistic? Tbh I think it's more primarily a youth problem then a race problem. I've been following C4's current programmes on the issue and it seemed to me there were gangs from a range of races - asian, white, black - and also that the race that mainly commited the crimes or carried knives depended on the area. E.g Glasglow, where crimes where mainly from whites, has a greater number of criems then London (that I imagine would be majority balck).

I think your right in that broken homes and a lack of prospects is a big part of the problem. IMO, I think it's a general low self esteem amongst youths that aren't given enough support at school or home to recognise there self worth. That's why I think you get all this crap about "respect" between gangs and youths that leads to violence. Tackling home life is a difficult one but schools, where you've got more control, I think would be the best place to start. Better education on crime (which at current is not at all enough) and providing enough support to ALL students to realise their potential I think would have the twofold effect of raising self-esteem and increasing awareness.

Sport programs I think would be a very good idea. Alot of the problem is boredom and nowhere to do anything constructive. Alongside this, other prograas such as music and business would be good as it targets what alot of youths are interested in and in the case of business, gets them enthusiatic about their future.

I'm not really a supporter of vocational programs. I think alot of the time it's a substitute for providing quality education and allows students' potential to go under-estimated as alot of them tiem it does. I would rather educate teachers more on youths and provide more personal, direct support to students so that if there's a problem preventing a kid from doing their best, it's addressed.
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Bornstubborn
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(Original post by allieRAWR!)
Based on what statistic? Tbh I think it's more primarily a youth problem then a race problem. I've been following C4's current programmes on the issue and it seemed to me there were gangs from a range of races - asian, white, black - and also that the race that mainly commited the crimes or carried knives depended on the area. E.g Glasglow, where crimes where mainly from whites, has a greater number of criems then London (that I imagine would be majority balck).



Sport programs I think would be a very good idea. Alot of the problem is boredom and nowhere to do anything constructive. Alongside this, other prograas such as music and business would be good as it targets what alot of youths are interested in and in the case of business, gets them enthusiatic about their future.

I'm not really a supporter of vocational programs. I think alot of the time it's a substitute for providing quality education and allows students' potential to go under-estimated as alot of them tiem it does. I would rather educate teachers more on youths and provide more personal, direct support to students so that if there's a problem preventing a kid from doing their best, it's addressed.
I am sorry but the majority of the murders are commited by black youths. This is a simple fact. Another thing you must realise; the only reason this has become such a big issue recently is because its happening in London more. This is most certainly a majority black problem

I think music is not a good policy, this just makes the problem worse. Sport teaches these kids, respect, dedication and many other attributes, the music they listen to is music for criminals.

You have to realise; not every person will go to university, yet these guys could get good jobs in building and engineering, in a hands on training environment that would suit them better.
They wont become scientists, doctors or academics but they could make 25 - 30K a year as electricians.
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mfm89
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
Its not the houses killing people. There's only one reason palces with nicer housing are better to live, its because you have to buy them to live there.

Long prison sentence's get these people away from decent people, its punishment for crime and it deters others.
Indirectly, better SOCIAL housing (not private) would do a lot. The worse housing estates effectively breed anti-social behaviour. Firstly they're cramped, are a poor environment for study, and forces kids onto the streets to socialise-which isnt always a bad except theres no facilities, so they hang out at bus stops etc, which in turn frightens and intimidates.

They foster no pride in where you live, encouraging graffiti, smashing phone boxes etc. Others living there, especially the elderly, are often far too scared to leave their homes and become very isolated and alone. The more frightened people are the less likely they'd work with the police, come forward as witnesses.
The problem with many of the old estates/blocks of flats is that very rarely do people have the opportunity to get to know their neighbours. there arent areas where you can sit out with all the mums, sharing the childcare, or for children to play together. Good quality architecture and planning has to be part of the solution to repair community cohesion.

Longer sentences may deter the odd person, but not the hardened crims and the gang members. Since they dabble with all sorts of criminal activity, drug dealing, mugging, burglary, i doubt they think much about the consequences of their actions. Causes of crime still have not been dealt with.
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sjc04204
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I am sorry but the majority of the murders are commited by black youths. This is a simple fact. Another thing you must realise; the only reason this has become such a big issue recently is because its happening in London more. This is most certainly a majority black problem

I think music is not a good policy, this just makes the problem worse. Sport teaches these kids, respect, dedication and many other attributes, the music they listen to is music for criminals.

You have to realise; not every person will go to university, yet these guys could get good jobs in building and engineering, in a hands on training environment that would suit them better.
They wont become scientists, doctors or academics but they could make 25 - 30K a year as electricians.
another fact is glasgow has one of the highest murder rates in ...yes...you guessed it...THE WORLD. google your facts before generalising a whole race. :-|
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2026
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(Original post by andy5788)
Is it as bad as it is currently portrayed in the press?
No.

(Original post by andy5788)
How should we go about reducing incidences of knife crime?
A variety of options e.g. improving the education system, creating more recreational facilities for the younger generations, tougher sentencing and zero tolerance, and etc.

(Original post by andy5788)
Have you ever carried a knife?
Are you speaing metaphorically?
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34253
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(Original post by sjc04204)
another fact is glasgow has one of the highest murder rates in ...yes...you guessed it...THE WORLD. google your facts before generalising a whole race. :-|
I think the statistics are that 76% of all stabbings in London are on black people, and 79% are suspects. This is a disproportional amount of murders considering they account for only 10% of London as a whole. Let me guess... they commit 8 times more stabbings than they should because of their socioeconomic circumstances:rolleyes: .

I think the first step in taking down the numbers of stabbings is to stop over reporting the times when people get stabbed. As it stands teenagers think there is a high chance of being stabbed, when in fact the chances are very low indeed. However with this fear comes the need to protect yourself, and so in over reporting the press is swelling the number of people who use knives and the viscious cycle will continue until knife crime stops selling newspapers.
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