General Election is ON - Thursday 12 December! Watch

Poll: Will the Tories get a working majority on December 12th?
Yes (63)
33.16%
No (91)
47.89%
Don't know (36)
18.95%
Wired_1800
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#81
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#81
(Original post by JohnJones5)
Labour would be disastrous for Britain
1- Nationalisation would decrease the efficiency of energy companies and would cost a fortune
2- Higher Taxes and Inflation - inflation is a tax on poor people - which would be caused by Labour printing money
3- Seizing company assets https://www.ft.com/content/dc17d7ee-...8-ca4456540ea6 - would cause financial markets to crash
4- Abolishing private schools
5- Leaving NATO - would be disastrous for national security
6- Higher minimum wage - despite good intentions, would cause higher unemployment and inflation
These are just Tory-led attacks on a Party focused on support for everyone.
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keatsian
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#82
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#82
With regards to voting - I am registered to vote but I might not be in my constituency when polling opens (probably only for the day, so I might get back in time). Is it possible to vote elsewhere or should I register for a postal vote now?
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Wired_1800
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#83
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#83
(Original post by keatsian)
With regards to voting - I am registered to vote but I might not be in my constituency when polling opens (probably only for the day, so I might get back in time). Is it possible to vote elsewhere or should I register for a postal vote now?
To be safe, I think it is best to register for a postal vote. Many students, old people and very busy people, I think, should register for postal vote.
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keatsian
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Wired_1800)
To be safe, I think it is best to register for a postal vote. Many students, old people and very busy people, I think, should register for postal vote.
Yeah that sounds like a good idea, thank you!
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Wired_1800
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#85
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#85
(Original post by keatsian)
Yeah that sounds like a good idea, thank you!
No worries
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Fullofsurprises
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#86
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#86
(Original post by keatsian)
With regards to voting - I am registered to vote but I might not be in my constituency when polling opens (probably only for the day, so I might get back in time). Is it possible to vote elsewhere or should I register for a postal vote now?
There's a help page for this on the gov.uk site:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-a-postal-vote

but you can also do it through local authority websites.
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DSilva
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Rock Fan)
I ain't voting Labour **** them
Well reasoned argument...
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Wired_1800
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#88
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#88
Fullofsurprises, nulli tertius

https://mobile.twitter.com/jackwdoyl...itics-50212212


What do you think about this? I think it is fair.
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Rakas21
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Fullofsurprises, nulli tertius

https://mobile.twitter.com/jackwdoyl...itics-50212212


What do you think about this? I think it is fair.
I'd have liked her to have it back since she's not standing again anyway but she did leave government to side the with an opposition even if not the main opposition. So yes, it is fair.
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Wired_1800
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#90
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#90
(Original post by Rakas21)
I'd have liked her to have it back since she's not standing again anyway but she did leave government to side the with an opposition even if not the main opposition. So yes, it is fair.
I agree with you. If it was the Labour Party, I would not have accepted those 21 MPs back to the fold. Such treachery should not be forgiven esp in a time of great concern.
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Rakas21
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Wired_1800)
These are just Tory-led attacks on a Party focused on support for everyone.
Actually if we put aside the rest of their policies, the way they have proposed nationalisation of energy, water and private schools does prevent a severe danger to Sterling.

Right now the proposals are not as i understand it to buy the firms at market value (would cost about £200bn collectively) but to more or less just appropriate the assets without compensation. Now if you do that and even ignore the fact that it is literally theft of private property, you are not just stealing from British investors that you might compensate in some form, you are actively as government policy choosing to steal from Canadian, Australian and Singaporian pension funds.

Do you believe that their politicians will choose to invest further (tens of billions each year) in a country which has just impoverished their pensioners ect..

- This is the problem with fantasy economics. If Labour won't raise taxes or cut spending by the amount they need (because they'd never be elected if they did) then they resort to saying they'll steal from foreign pensioners ect.

How a government wants to do something can be as important as what they wish to do.
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NotNotBatman
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#92
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#92
I'll be voting Labour.
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Wired_1800
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#93
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#93
(Original post by Rakas21)
Actually if we put aside the rest of their policies, the way they have proposed nationalisation of energy, water and private schools does prevent a severe danger to Sterling.

Right now the proposals are not as i understand it to buy the firms at market value (would cost about £200bn collectively) but to more or less just appropriate the assets without compensation. Now if you do that and even ignore the fact that it is literally theft of private property, you are not just stealing from British investors that you might compensate in some form, you are actively as government policy choosing to steal from Canadian, Australian and Singaporian pension funds.

Do you believe that their politicians will choose to invest further (tens of billions each year) in a country which has just impoverished their pensioners ect..

- This is the problem with fantasy economics. If Labour won't raise taxes or cut spending by the amount they need (because they'd never be elected if they did) then they resort to saying they'll steal from foreign pensioners ect.

How a government wants to do something can be as important as what they wish to do.
I am not in favour of complete nationalisation of all industries. I agree that this could be viewed as an aggressive act against other countries and our own citizens. I favour a bit of nationalisation for mismanaged institutions with others whipped up to shape.

I think the Labour Party is a broad church where everyone is welcome. I think a Labour Government will provide a strong and excellent alternative to the failing Tory Government.
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Wired_1800
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#94
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#94
(Original post by NotNotBatman)
I'll be voting Labour.
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Burton Bridge
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#95
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#95
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Lets take your House analogy, but make it correct by changing one thing:

In brexit - the EU doesn't want to sell the house. Their ultimate goal is to keep the house the way it was before. They are not a willing seller as you are portraying them to be in your analogy.

So in reality, your sat in someones house saying you want to buy it.. and they are saying 'no, we don't want to sell you the house'. Your post is misleading because when you buy a house, normally you are buying from a willing seller.. its a negotiation between two parties who both want the same outcome.

The tory plan is: Lets negotiate the best price for the house.. but if you refuse, we won't leave or give up. we will stay here and force you to negotiate even if it means damaging both of us.

The labour plan is: Lets negotiate the best price for the house.. after you give us your price, we will take it back to our family to vote on your price. By the way, half of our family don't actually want to buy your house.

---

Be 100% honest. Which of those gives you the best price.

In the first option, the Seller (who remember, doesn't want to sell) has motivation to do something they don't want to do. Its not great motivation because it hurts the buyer as well.. but its motivation not to just refuse.

In the second option, why would the seller ever offer a good price? If the house is worth 200k, why would they not ask for 2 million? What motivation do they have? They don't want to sell it after all.. and they know that your going to put their price to a vote, where half of the people don't want it anyway.. surely their best path to victory is to give you an unsreasonably bad offer, so that you vote against it, and they keep their house.

---

Spoiler:
Show
This is the common sense of netogiating that the vast vast majority of the public can see. You won't get a good deal unless out of a negotiation unless you have leverage. If you promise a vote on the deal, and you make it so that your own members can vote against it.. you have 0 leverage. There is no motivation at all for the EU to offer a deal..

The thing is, in my experiance most Labour members know this is true - but they are ok with because they want to remain. They know that the labour policy is bassically remain in all but name - its a longwinded way of making sure we stay in, whilst looking like you wanted to leave. Its tricky, but it could work for those who want to remain. There is another smaller, more deluded group though who have no clue about negotiations and power balances, and actually believe that Corbyn can sit down with the EU and say 'Give us a better deal than you gave Boris.. Why? Because were going to vote on it, and if you give us a good deal, you probably won't get what you want (us to stay in) but if you give us a bad deal.. its more likely you will'.

Cherry on the cake:

Thornberry and others, who would be some of the cheif MPs in charge of making the deal, have already declared they will campaign against it, no matter what, because they are remainers.. so the cherry on the cake is that the labour people who are trying to get the (impossible) deal without any leverage at all..don't even support the deal they are trying to make!</div>
Excellent post
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Burton Bridge
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Wired_1800)
I am not in favour of complete nationalisation of all industries. I agree that this could be viewed as an aggressive act against other countries and our own citizens. I favour a bit of nationalisation for mismanaged institutions with others whipped up to shape.

I think the Labour Party is a broad church where everyone is welcome. I think a Labour Government will provide a strong and excellent alternative to the failing Tory Government.
Nationalisation of public services and certain industry is a wonderful thing as long as the country remains democratic and the wealth generated is spread out and not hoarded in at the top or shipped overseas to spend an eternity in a off shore bank accounts.
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Wired_1800
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#97
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#97
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Nationalisation of public services and certain industry is a wonderful thing as long as the country remains democratic and the wealth generated is spread out and not hoarded in at the top or shipped overseas to spend an eternity in a off shore bank accounts.
I agree. That is why we need a Labour Government to bring in good and sustainable changes.
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DSilva
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Rakas21)
Actually if we put aside the rest of their policies, the way they have proposed nationalisation of energy, water and private schools does prevent a severe danger to Sterling.

Right now the proposals are not as i understand it to buy the firms at market value (would cost about £200bn collectively) but to more or less just appropriate the assets without compensation. Now if you do that and even ignore the fact that it is literally theft of private property, you are not just stealing from British investors that you might compensate in some form, you are actively as government policy choosing to steal from Canadian, Australian and Singaporian pension funds.

Do you believe that their politicians will choose to invest further (tens of billions each year) in a country which has just impoverished their pensioners ect..

- This is the problem with fantasy economics. If Labour won't raise taxes or cut spending by the amount they need (because they'd never be elected if they did) then they resort to saying they'll steal from foreign pensioners ect.

How a government wants to do something can be as important as what they wish to do.
I thought it was about putting people of Thai country first.

The fact that these industries are now worth so much shows how stupid we were to privatise them.
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DSilva
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Rakas21)
Actually if we put aside the rest of their policies, the way they have proposed nationalisation of energy, water and private schools does prevent a severe danger to Sterling.

Right now the proposals are not as i understand it to buy the firms at market value (would cost about £200bn collectively) but to more or less just appropriate the assets without compensation. Now if you do that and even ignore the fact that it is literally theft of private property, you are not just stealing from British investors that you might compensate in some form, you are actively as government policy choosing to steal from Canadian, Australian and Singaporian pension funds.

Do you believe that their politicians will choose to invest further (tens of billions each year) in a country which has just impoverished their pensioners ect..

- This is the problem with fantasy economics. If Labour won't raise taxes or cut spending by the amount they need (because they'd never be elected if they did) then they resort to saying they'll steal from foreign pensioners ect.

How a government wants to do something can be as important as what they wish to do.
I thought it was about putting people of Thai country first.

The fact that these industries are now worth so much shows how stupid we were to privatise them.

(Original post by Wired_1800)
I agree. That is why we need a Labour Government to bring in good and sustainable changes.
Yes.
Whatever your views on Corbyn personally, or his position on Brexit, this is perhaps the only chance we will get for a radical agenda on issues like health, education, welfare, housing, public ownership etc.
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imlikeahermit
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#100
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#100
Lib Dem voter here. Literally do not give a **** about any other policy, just want article 50 revoked and this whole sorry mess forgotten about. I do think however, we will get a Lib Dem/Labour coalition.
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