PhD in economics Watch

AlanRef
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i was wondering what top uni's offer PhDs and how many people do it? also how much does it cost? and is it a two year course if you have your masters? finally, how do people get scholarships for it?
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TSRreader
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Top 5 UK universities for mainstream PhD economics are LSE, Oxford, Cambridge-Warwick (Cambridge wins at prestige and probably have better placements but Warwick wins at research output) and UCL. Essex, Nottingham and York are likely to come after the top 5. These are general economic rankings but it would more useful to find the rankings for your fields of interest. http://www.econphd.net/rankings.htm Other than Oxford and LSE, initial placements outside EU/Europe are less unlikely if you want to pursue academia.


The top 5 programs are quite similar to the programs in the states - not sure about the others. They are at least 3 years if you have a master. In order to enter their PhD programs, they expect you to be holding a master similar to their master's program.

I only know that UK scholarships are more likely handed to EU citizens.

http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics , try here for further information regarding economic PhDs.
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pharmakos
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There are 3 UCL PhDs teaching at Stanford's Econ Dept--the highest number amongst British PhDs (others are LSE, Cam, and Ox): http://www-econ.stanford.edu/faculty/faculty.html
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Tallon
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Don't you have to teach to get a PhD? Or is it a course with exams or what?
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TSRreader
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(Original post by pharmakos)
There are 3 UCL PhDs teaching at Stanford's Econ Dept--the highest number amongst British PhDs (others are LSE, Cam, and Ox): http://www-econ.stanford.edu/faculty/faculty.html
I said "initial placement", after initial placement: you can either fall to a worse department or rise to a better one - all depends on your effort as an academia/researcher. Please read the Cam and UCL PhD CVs and you will find their initial placement weren't at Stanford.

For example: http://www.stanford.edu/~nbloom/CV.pdf
He got his UCL PhD in 2001 but was not initial placed in Stanford.

You don't need to teach to get a PhD, some universities (e.g. Cambridge and Cornell) wishes their PhD student to help in teaching but others don't. PhD is after all not a teaching degree but a research degree. But getting professorship or tenured is another thing totally.
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pharmakos
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(Original post by TSRreader)
I said "initial placement", after initial placement: you can either fall to a worse department or rise to a better one - all depends on your effort as an academia/researcher. Please read the Cam and UCL PhD CVs and you will find their initial placement weren't at Stanford.

For example: http://www.stanford.edu/~nbloom/CV.pdf
He got his UCL PhD in 2001 but was not initial placed in Stanford.

You don't need to teach to get a PhD, some universities (e.g. Cambridge and Cornell) wishes their PhD student to help in teaching but others don't. PhD is after all not a teaching degree but a research degree. But getting professorship or tenured is another thing totally.
1.
The other two UCL PhDs initially placed at Stanford.
LUIGI PISTAFERRI: http://www.stanford.edu/~pista/cv.pdf
Giacomo De Giorgi: http://www.stanford.edu/~pista/cv.pdf

2. Teaching experience isn't required but preferred, especially in the US.
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TSRreader
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(Original post by pharmakos)
1.
The other two UCL PhDs initially placed at Stanford.
LUIGI PISTAFERRI: http://www.stanford.edu/~pista/cv.pdf
Giacomo De Giorgi: http://www.stanford.edu/~pista/cv.pdf

2. Teaching experience isn't required but preferred, especially in the US.
http://www.econ.ucl.ac.uk/index.php

I accept to be corrected about Giacomo, as according to UCL's Econ homepage, he/she was initially placed in Stanford.

But for Luigi, I don't think there's enough evidence from the CV to show his/her initial placement was in Stanford. Luigi had two doctorate, and the time frame for the second doctorate fits within the period which Luigi was placed into Stanford.

(Btw, both your links are the same.)

UCL seems to have quite a small amount of placements. It's possible that the income amount of PhD student are smaller than other top schools. Otherwise, the competition to get placement seem a bit tougher than other schools.

Anyway, this discussion is only relevant if OP wishes to pursue academia and not research positions.

If OP wishes to pursue research positions (i.e IMF and WB), teaching experience is not even relevant at all. Again, LSE, Oxford and Cambridge are top of the list compared to the other 2 top 5s.
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pharmakos
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(Original post by TSRreader)
http://www.econ.ucl.ac.uk/index.php

I accept to be corrected about Giacomo, as according to UCL's Econ homepage, he/she was initially placed in Stanford.

But for Luigi, I don't think there's enough evidence from the CV to show his/her initial placement was in Stanford. Luigi had two doctorate, and the time frame for the second doctorate fits within the period which Luigi was placed into Stanford.

(Btw, both your links are the same.)
Thanks for the correct link. That's what I wanted to post initially. Luigi's CV shows that he finished his PhD at UCL in 1999 and was employed as assistant professor at Stanford in the same year. So apparently, he's initially placed at Stanford.
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Inter-Company
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(Original post by pharmakos)
There are 3 UCL PhDs teaching at Stanford's Econ Dept--the highest number amongst British PhDs (others are LSE, Cam, and Ox): http://www-econ.stanford.edu/faculty/faculty.html
so :rolleyes:

there are 5 Oxbridge PhD's teaching at Harvord 'the highest number amongst British PhDs' - point being?

that does not answer any of the OP's questions, just sounds like to me your trying to justify UCL's status as if your not already contempt with it
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Kitty Pimms
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(Original post by TSRreader)
I only know that UK scholarships are more likely handed to EU citizens.
As in, more likely to be given to someone from Germany than someone from London? If so, that's not true at all, at least for the ESRC studentships (which are, AFAIK, the largest funder of economics PhDs and certainly the most generous with a 16k stipend). Until this year in fact EU students didn't get any stipend whereas UK students did, so funnily enough the departments nearly always awarded them to UK residents.

Anyway, to the OP, the ESRC places are awarded as quotas to departments who then allocate them (although there are also competition places for those who don't get a quota award and are nominated by their department). I have the full list of next-year's allocations somewhere, I'll look for it if you're interested.

It's a 3 year course although I suspect the ESRC will require you to have a qualifying (approved) masters if you want them to pay for it. If not, you'll have to do another one, which makes it a 4-year course.

FWIW, I'm a political scientist, rather than an economist *ducks*, so I'm extrapolating slightly from the ESRC's procedures for us.
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TSRreader
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(Original post by IlexAquifolium)
As in, more likely to be given to someone from Germany than someone from London? If so, that's not true at all, at least for the ESRC studentships (which are, AFAIK, the largest funder of economics PhDs and certainly the most generous with a 16k stipend). Until this year in fact EU students didn't get any stipend whereas UK students did, so funnily enough the departments nearly always awarded them to UK residents.

Anyway, to the OP, the ESRC places are awarded as quotas to departments who then allocate them (although there are also competition places for those who don't get a quota award and are nominated by their department). I have the full list of next-year's allocations somewhere, I'll look for it if you're interested.

It's a 3 year course although I suspect the ESRC will require you to have a qualifying (approved) masters if you want them to pay for it. If not, you'll have to do another one, which makes it a 4-year course.

FWIW, I'm a political scientist, rather than an economist *ducks*, so I'm extrapolating slightly from the ESRC's procedures for us.
When I mean EU students, they also include British students. I want to point out that UK tend to not fund international students outside the EU. I presumed the OP is not from Britain as he/she doesn't know about the economic department's ranking in the UK.

The only non-EU exclusive scholarship I know of in the UK is the Rhodes Scholar.
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Kitty Pimms
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(Original post by TSRreader)
When I mean EU students, they also include British students. I want to point out that UK tend to not fund international students outside the EU. I presumed the OP is not from Britain as he/she doesn't know about the economic department's ranking in the UK.

The only non-EU exclusive scholarship I know of in the UK is the Rhodes Scholar.
Ah...now I understand.

Yes, you're completely right. Oxford's quite generous with their international studentships through the Clarendon fund, but it takes a lot of research for international students to find a particular stipend for which they're eligible, and then put in the application!

I'd assumed that the OP was British because they live in Wembley, but I'm probably wrong. I'll probably find out now that they're not even an undergrad and all this advice is going over their head! Heh
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Aegilia
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(Original post by TSRreader)
When I mean EU students, they also include British students. I want to point out that UK tend to not fund international students outside the EU. I presumed the OP is not from Britain as he/she doesn't know about the economic department's ranking in the UK.

The only non-EU exclusive scholarship I know of in the UK is the Rhodes Scholar.
For postgraduate, there are huge numbers of scholarships and bursaries availible to students from outside the EU. For instance, if you're from Hong Kong, you automatically get a % knocked of fees for postgrad at certain universities: most notably RHUL, Swansea, Aberdeen, Oxford Brookes etc.
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TSRreader
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(Original post by Aegilia)
For postgraduate, there are huge numbers of scholarships and bursaries availible to students from outside the EU. For instance, if you're from Hong Kong, you automatically get a % knocked of fees for postgrad at certain universities: most notably RHUL, Swansea, Aberdeen, Oxford Brookes etc.
You are aware that OP asked for top economic uni's scholarship?
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Aegilia
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(Original post by TSRreader)
You are aware that OP asked for top economic uni's scholarship?
It's postgraduate. Doesn't matter as much if you go to a top university or not. Providing it is recognised and decent. The universities I listed are all decent and recognised.

As for the top, Warwick, LSE, Manchester, Oxbridge all offer scholarships and bursaries. OP, you should really conduct the research yourself - that's what prospectuses and websites are for.

Oh and OP: for a realistic chance of getting entry into these universities, you *should* have a 1st in your undergrad, or a minimum of a high 2:1.
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TSRreader
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(Original post by Aegilia)
It's postgraduate. Doesn't matter as much if you go to a top university or not. Providing it is recognised and decent. The universities I listed are all decent and recognised.
(Original post by AlanRef)
i was wondering what top uni's offer PhDs and how many people do it? also how much does it cost? and is it a two year course if you have your masters? finally, how do people get scholarships for it?
Firstly, you are going off the topic as it's clear what OP want to discuss about.

Secondarily, do you know anything about postgraduate? From the very sound of it, you clearly don't. Granted, university's overall prestige is not important but the relevant department is. You have clearly have merged the two factors into one.

Getting a PhD from a very weak department could mean never able to enter academia and find certain job. The reason why university overall prestige doesn't play an important part is that one can find a career in academia for a relative subject as academia ranking are different to university's overall ranking.

(Original post by Aegilia)
As for the top, Warwick, LSE, Manchester, Oxbridge all offer scholarships and bursaries. OP, you should really conduct the research If yourself - that's what prospectuses and websites are for.
Why do you think OP posted here? Why are you saying Manchester is a top university for OP's interest? It has a RAE of 4 for Economics and Econometrics and close to 40-50% of other economics department all got 4. If you have nothing constructive to offer into discussion please don't just drop out arbitary posts that is not relevant to the discussion.

(Original post by Aegilia)
Oh and OP: for a realistic chance of getting entry into these universities, you *should* have a 1st in your undergrad, or a minimum of a high 2:1.
Why are you now generalising entry standards for top economic department's postgraduate entry? UCL and Warwick will accept 2:1 but LSE and Oxbridge wants only firsts. Please read their websites before posting.
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davidbristol
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by TSReader:
"Why do you think OP posted here? Why are you saying Manchester is a top university for OP's interest?
It has a RAE of 4 for Economics and Econometrics and close to 40-50% of other economics department all got 4. If you have nothing constructive to offer into discussion please don't just drop out arbitary posts that is not relevant to the discussion."

Manchester has a Nobel prize winner on it's staff and three previous winners listed as being assoicated with the department- how many other economics departments do? It was the birthplace of modern economics (the marginal revoluation via Jeavons) and had the UK's first Econometrics department. RAE's are all good and well - but 4 is not an accurate measure of Manchester's economics department. If Manchester get a 4 in the current RAE I'll eat my hat.

On topic OP: "
i was wondering what top uni's offer PhDs and how many people do it? also how much does it cost? and is it a two year course if you have your masters? finally, how do people get scholarships for it?"

If you're from the UK, funding is generally provided by the ESRC. Typically funding is now given for 4 years in a so-called 1+3 scheme where you take a research masters in the first year before continuing to do your PhD. Competition in economics for PhD funding is intense. As has been pointed out the universities are allocated quota of places so department's themselves determine who gets funding not the ESRC. On the "approved" masters, there is some flexibility here, departments can (and do) consult with the ERSC if a student has a masters degree that does qualify as "research training" but is not recognised formally by the ESRC.

Tpyically fee's for EU students are around 3.5k per year. If your masters is a research masters (sometimes called an MPhil) yes it may be possible to complete a PhD in 2 years - though this is rare. Also it would likely you'd need your PhD to be on the same topic as your masters.

Whilst most UK students are funded via the ESRC most universities have some funding for outstanding international students - you're best looking at each departments website for more details.
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Aegilia
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(Original post by TSRreader)
Firstly, you are going off the topic as it's clear what OP want to discuss about.

Secondarily, do you know anything about postgraduate? From the very sound of it, you clearly don't. Granted, university's overall prestige is not important but the relevant department is. You have clearly have merged the two factors into one.

Getting a PhD from a very weak department could mean never able to enter academia and find certain job. The reason why university overall prestige doesn't play an important part is that one can find a career in academia for a relative subject as academia ranking are different to university's overall ranking.


Why do you think OP posted here? Why are you saying Manchester is a top university for OP's interest? It has a RAE of 4 for Economics and Econometrics and close to 40-50% of other economics department all got 4. If you have nothing constructive to offer into discussion please don't just drop out arbitary posts that is not relevant to the discussion.



Why are you now generalising entry standards for top economic department's postgraduate entry? UCL and Warwick will accept 2:1 but LSE and Oxbridge wants only firsts. Please read their websites before posting.
Hahahahahaha. The TSR clown is born. So many little anecdotes in your response. Plus you're stating the obvious in numerous cases. For your information, Economics at Manchester is very prestigious at postgrad level. And I am not generalising entry standards. Even LSE and Oxbridge accept 2:1's, i'll have you know.

Oh, by the way, congratulations for using the word 'secondarily'. Very fancy indeed. :laugh:
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TSRreader
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(Original post by Aegilia)
Hahahahahaha. The TSR clown is born. So many little anecdotes in your response. Plus you're stating the obvious in numerous cases. For your information, Economics at Manchester is very prestigious at postgrad level. And I am not generalising entry standards. Even LSE and Oxbridge accept 2:1's, i'll have you know.

Oh, by the way, congratulations for using the word 'secondarily'. Very fancy indeed. :laugh:
http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/gradu...cEconomics.htm
Are we talking about economics or some another random subject? LSE have specified its needs a first class honour, it's not my anecdote but a fact. You are the one running on wild assumptions that I was speculating.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/study/post...mics/tdegrees/
You are generalising about entry standards. As you can see Warwick's entry standard are different from LSE for economics.

And where are your proof that Manchester's Economic Department is highly regarded in International Economic Community?
http://ideas.repec.org/top/top.inst.all.html
And above ranking I posted previously are actually done by economic academics in the field. I can safely be assured that they are more experienced and knowledgeable about economics than you.
Again, you are confusing an university's overall prestige versus its subject field.
In fact, can you find me with one Manchester PhD graduate in economics working in the world top 30 economic department?

I am a human so I will make silly mistakes like typos and spelling errors. Seriously, are you suggesting you're mister perfect?

Please can you contribute anything useful to an economic PhD prospective student rather than rambling on something else?

Edit: You should be aware of how silly your statement is about Manchester as you try to refute the results of the RAE. So in fact you are claiming that the academia in both UK and US are all lying about Manchester's standard of economics in world standing.
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Kitty Pimms
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(Original post by TSRreader)
Edit: You should be aware of how silly your statement is about Manchester as you try to refute the results of the RAE. So in fact you are claiming that the academia in both UK and US are all lying about Manchester's standard of economics in world standing.
Well, the RAE's now 7 years old and thoroughly out of date. Stating that it's now fairly irrelevant isn't 'refuting' it as such.
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