Should Billionaires Exist in the UK? Watch

Poll: Should billionaires exist in the UK?
Yes (68)
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No (30)
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Rakas21
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I think that's a phantom problem, regarding Corbyns Jewish problem.

If nobody is perpersecuting the poor, can you explain to me why the gap between the riches and poorest is growing every year. And also why is a housing crisis which quite litterally kills poor people every year.
Income inequality has actually decreased in recent years and indeed the next increase in the living wage (government) will mean that those in full time work are within 60% of median earnings (the definition of relative poverty according to the government).

Inequality as a whole is increasing because asset prices (such as housing or savings/investments) are generally rising and the poor have less appreciating assets.

I shan't comment on the death point.
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LiberOfLondon
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I think that's a phantom problem, regarding Corbyns Jewish problem.
- he says, as a Labour candidate calls a practicing Jew ”Shylock”.
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Burton Bridge
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#83
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#83
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
- he says, as a Labour candidate calls a practicing Jew ”Shylock”.
Can you name any Corbyn/labour polices that will oppress Jews? What danger are they in?
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Burton Bridge
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Rakas21)
Income inequality has actually decreased in recent years and indeed the next increase in the living wage (government) will mean that those in full time work are within 60% of median earnings (the definition of relative poverty according to the government).

Inequality as a whole is increasing because asset prices (such as housing or savings/investments) are generally rising and the poor have less appreciating assets.

I shan't comment on the death point.
We can play with figures all we like but the human facts on the ground tell the real story and that litterally is people (disproportionately young WC men) dying on the streets.

Another thing, (which links to the TRTB we mentioned in another thread) is certain assets like you homes value are not a true reflection of personal wealth. You can only make money in the property game if you have several houses, you can never make money on you're personal home.
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LiberOfLondon
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Can you name any Corbyn/labour polices that will oppress Jews? What danger are they in?
Plenty of Jews say they would leave the country if Corbyn was elected: https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/n...me-pm-1.469270

The last large-scale Jewish exodus was when Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis) were elected.
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DJWatson
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#86
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#86
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Plenty of Jews say they would leave the country if Corbyn was elected: https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/n...me-pm-1.469270

The last large-scale Jewish exodus was when Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis) were elected.
Can I just mention that saying you will leave the country and actually leaving are two entirely different things. Do you have the means to leave? Where will you go? Where will you stay? What about your assets in the UK? When people argue they will leave, I see it as a grumpy child saying he’s going to leave home but doesn’t take a step beyond the front door. There’s massive immobility involved that no one factors in.
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LiberOfLondon
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#87
(Original post by DJWatson)
Can I just mention that saying you will leave the country and actually leaving are two entirely different things. Do you have the means to leave? Where will you go? Where will you stay? What about your assets in the UK? When people argue they will leave, I see it as a grumpy child saying he’s going to leave home but doesn’t take a step beyond the front door. There’s massive immobility involved that no one factors in.
No, they could perform Alyiah to get away from Corbyn. I have a feeling that if he is elected, Jews will be leaving the country rapidly to avoid his Momentum er... holiday camps.
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winterscoming
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#88
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#88
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
The last large-scale Jewish exodus was when Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis) were elected.
Why do you highlight the word 'Socialist'? National Socialism is a totally different philosophy to Socialism. National Socialism is based on Nationalism and Fascism, and is strongly opposed to socialism and liberalism.

Socialism is characterised by collective/shared/cooperative ownership and workers' self-management (e.g. workers cannot be "fired" without good reason because every worker is equal to everyone else due to their part in collective ownership, so no-one has the authority to tell the worker what to do as long as they're doing their job properly)

Fascism is the opposite of this - it's characterised by authoritarian state ownership and control with absolute power in the hands of the executive. (e.g. workers must do unquestioningly as they are told by those in power)
Last edited by winterscoming; 1 week ago
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Burton Bridge
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#89
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#89
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Plenty of Jews say they would leave the country if Corbyn was elected: https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/n...me-pm-1.469270

The last large-scale Jewish exodus was when Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis) were elected.
I hold a respect for you you're views are normally sound and rational however exceptionally right wing and I totally reject most of them but, I respect your abilty to voice and campaign for what you believe to be correct.

So with all due respect why highlight the word socialist when you know full well the context of democratic socialism, the type we have seen in this great country, is totally different and incomparable to the Nazis facist regime.

Also just because some friends of the National Liberal Movement, centre-right to right-wing political party in Israel, dont like him and play this card, they are unlikely to carry through with.

So again, Can you name any Corbyn/labour polices that will oppress Jews? What danger are they in?

My guess is you can't
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LiberOfLondon
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#90
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#90
(Original post by winterscoming)
Why do you highlight the word 'Socialist'? National Socialism is a totally different philosophy to Socialism. National Socialism is based on Nationalism and Fascism, and is strongly opposed to socialism and liberalism.

Socialism is characterised by collective/shared/cooperative ownership and workers' self-management (e.g. workers cannot be "fired" without good reason because every worker is equal to everyone else due to their part in collective ownership, so no-one has the authority to tell the worker what to do as long as they're doing their job properly)

Fascism is the opposite of this - it's characterised by authoritarian state ownership and control with absolute power in the hands of the executive. (e.g. workers must do unquestioningly as they are told by those in power)
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I hold a respect for you you're views are normally sound and rational however exceptionally right wing and I totally reject most of them but, I respect your abilty to voice and campaign for what you believe to be correct.

So with all due respect why highlight the word socialist when you know full well the context of democratic socialism, the type we have seen in this great country, is totally different and incomparable to the Nazis facist regime.

Also just because some friends of the National Liberal Movement, centre-right to right-wing political party in Israel, dont like him and play this card, they are unlikely to carry through with.

So again, Can you name any Corbyn/labour polices that will oppress Jews? What danger are they in?

My guess is you can't
Re the ”National Socialism =/= Socialism” point:
Go onto Wikipedia/whatever information source you use.
Look up ”National Socialist Programme” (which was the Nazi manifesto)
You will see it contains this list of points, of which I have helpfully put the *Socialist* ones in bold, and my own comments in italic

Spoiler:
Show
1) We demand the union of all Germans to form the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination (cf. Labour's support for a Scottish independence referendum) enjoyed by the nations.


2) We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations; and abolition of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.

3) We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people and colonization for our superfluous population.

4) None but members of the nation may be citizens of the state. None but those of German blood, whatever their creed may be. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the nation. (Labour candidates' beliefs that Ian Austin is not loyal to Britain, because he was made Trade Envoy to Israel)

5) Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest and must be regarded as being subject to foreign laws.

6) The right of voting on the state’s government and legislation is to be enjoyed by the citizen of the state alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, shall be granted to citizens of the state alone.

7) We oppose the corrupting custom of parliament of filling posts merely with a view to party considerations, and without reference to character or capability.

8) We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to nourish the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) must be excluded from the Reich.

9) All immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be required immediately to leave the Reich.

10) All citizens of the state shall be equal as regards rights and obligations. (Labour's support for the abolition of the Lords and monarchy)

11) The first obligation of every citizen must be to productively work mentally or physically. The activity of individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the framework of the whole for the benefit for the general good. We demand therefore:

12) Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice of life and property that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. Therefore, we demand ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

13) We demand nationalization of all businesses which have been up to the present formed into companies (trusts).

14) We demand a that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.

15) We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

16) We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

17) We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, (Montbiot's support for the nationalisation of country manors) abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land. (the Labour party has supported the nationalisation of ”buy-to-leave” properties)

18) We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the state must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the state of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

The state is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that:
a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;
b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the state to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;
c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications or any influence on them and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: "The good of the community before the good of the individual".

For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.
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winterscoming
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#91
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#91
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Re the ”National Socialism =/= Socialism” point:
Go onto Wikipedia/whatever information source you use.
Look up ”National Socialist Programme” (which was the Nazi manifesto)
You will see it contains this list of points, of which I have helpfully put the *Socialist* ones in bold, and my own comments in italic
The term "National Socialists" is a misnomer - they were Fascists, not Socialists. Why don't you look up the definition on Wikipedia for yourself?

Fascism and Socialism are complete opposites to each other. Whatever argument you think you're trying to make by looking for overlap is fundamentally incorrect. It is trivially easy to find overlap between all political ideologies; however it does not follow (i.e. is not logically valid) to claim that some kind of overlap means they are the same thing: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...6/Non-Sequitur

Socialism and Capitalism also overlap with each other yet they are opposites too. For example, "Self determination" is a very significant feature of both Socialism and Capitalism.

A human shares 95% of its DNA with a Mushroom, but that doesn't mean a human is 95% mushroom nor that a human has any significant characteristics in common with a mushroom.
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BasicMistake
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#92
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#92
A thread about billionaires devolving into National Socialism talk. Nice to see Godwin's Law alive and kicking.
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LiberOfLondon
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#93
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#93
(Original post by winterscoming)
The term "National Socialists" is a misnomer
The Nazis called themselves the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) so I'm not sure where you're getting the sense it's a misnomer from?
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winterscoming
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#94
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#94
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
The Nazis called themselves the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) so I'm not sure where you're getting the sense it's a misnomer from?
As I explained above, it's a misnomer because they were not socalists, they were fascists.
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JMR2019.
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#95
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#95
(Original post by MrMusician95)
As long as they and their businesses pay their fair share of tax I don't see an issue. It's usually the billionaires who create jobs that employ a great number of people.
If billionares paid their fair share of tax, they would no longer be billionares.
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BasicMistake
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#96
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#96
(Original post by JMR2019.)
If billionares paid their fair share of tax, they would no longer be billionares.
Unless you're assuming a wealth tax of unprecedented proportions, I really doubt that that is true.

Imposing a 70% marginal tax rate on a billionaire won't stop their assets being worth billions.
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Burton Bridge
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#97
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#97
(Original post by JMR2019.)
If billionares paid their fair share of tax, they would no longer be billionares.
I dont think this is true, which is all the more reason to make them pay tax and stop avoiding it.
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DSilva
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#98
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#98
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
The Nazis called themselves the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) so I'm not sure where you're getting the sense it's a misnomer from?
Yes and North Korea's full name is the 'Democratic Republic of North Korea'. I just don't know why people say they aren't democratic given it's in their name, right?
Last edited by DSilva; 1 week ago
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LiberOfLondon
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#99
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#99
(Original post by DSilva)
Yes and North Korea's full name is the 'Democratic Republic of North Korea'. I just don't know why people say they aren't democratic given it's in their name, right?
The difference being that the Nazis had socialist proposals in the 25 point plan, WHICH I HAVE POSTED UPTHREAD.
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DSilva
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#100
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#100
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
The difference being that the Nazis had socialist proposals in the 25 point plan, WHICH I HAVE POSTED UPTHREAD.
Now you're shifting the goalposts. They also had a lot of pro business proposals and privatised a number of industries. The obvious point being that unlike Communists, Nazis were driven by social policy, rather than economic policy. Economically they were opportunist, socially they were far right.

The idea that they were left wing is shameless historical revisionism.
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