Should women earn as much as men? Watch

Bornstubborn
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Ok, i have just read an article detaling how and where women earn less than men. It was stating how women earned less in full time and part time work.

I find it odd that people believe one group should earn as much as another group just because its 'not fair'. I think it is clear to all logical minds that men pursue education that will lead to more profitable careers, they are willing to work in dangerous environments, they will work more hours, travel further and they will not be taking 9 months off everytime they feel broody.

In my mind if men are more profitable to company's then they have every right to earn more money and we should abandon the ridiculous notion that women should earn as much as men just because its 'fair'.

I have never heard of people arguing in favour of certain ethnic groups getting paid more, even though there is a clear distinction between the salary's of certain ethnic groups.

I think it is clear that when you address the issue of ineqaulity in the salary of men and women, you should be careful to note if infact men are earning more simply because they are doing more rather than a case of any form of discrimination against women.

If it is the case that men are doing more (Something i consider to be obvious) then surely it is discrimination to pay women the same for doing less.

It reminds me of Wimbledon, there were many campaigners complaining that the women get paid less and so they increased the womens prize so it was equal to the men's prize. However the men play 5 sets, 2 more than the women and so women in Wimbledon are getting paid more than the men. Wimbledon is a good analogy for the workplace in this sense.

Discuss.
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Rav.
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What makes you think that women don't do as much as men?
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generalebriety
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Yeah, sure, but just because you consider something to be obvious, doesn't make it true. Some women do just as much as men, and they should be paid equally. Some women do very little, and they should be paid accordingly little. Some men do very little too.
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Malinski
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Everyone should be paid according to how much they do, regardless of gender!
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shorty.loves.angels
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Can u seriously not think of a career where women perform better?? Imo, you should be paid according to how good you are, how hard you work/how much effort you put in etc etc. Whether the person in question is male or female i find it irrelevant. Some women do want more hours, and will put themselves at higher risks, and will push themselves harder...
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JamieP
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Thats a flawed argument in so many ways I won't even bother to begin.

The only thing you said that I agree with in any way is maternity leave, call me a misogynist if you will, but I don't see why women (or men for that matter if on paternity leave) should continue on full pay for months while adding no value to a business. By all means allow unpaid (or part-paid) leave, and the ability to come back to work after the maternity leave, but why keep on full pay people that are doing nothing for a company?

By and large though, rubbish.
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Liverpool's Number 9
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I don't know what the problem is, no one is up in arms about porn!
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manderlay in flames
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(Original post by shorty.loves.angels)
Can u seriously not think of a career where women perform better?? Imo, you should be paid according to how good you are, how hard you work/how much effort you put in etc etc. Whether the person in question is male or female i find it irrelevant. Some women do want more hours, and will put themselves at higher risks, and will push themselves harder...
You're agreeing with the OP, he's talking averages not specifics (I think)
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WithFlyingColours
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The thing is, women need to decide between a career and having children. As long as they're happy to take maternity leave at a cost to the company they work for, they have no right to be paid the same as men. Not because men are better, but because it makes no sense for a company to invest as much in a woman instead of a man when the woman can, by law, take maternity leave and still cost the company money for absolutely NO productivity.

Also, these reports have always struck me as silly because you never see a comparison of what proportion of each sex are in jobs, and what they do. You can't expect sexes to be paid the same on average, when more of one sex are in a higher paid field of work than the other. It is still the case that men are primary workers in most families.
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trefusis128
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(Original post by Malinski)
Everyone should be paid according to how much they do, regardless of gender!
I completely agree, men and women of equal experience/skill should be paid the same. In manual labour jobs some would ofcourse say men have the advantage due to being naturally bigger/stronger, however if work rates are the same so to should be wage.
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DoMakeSayThink
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(Original post by generalebriety)
Yeah, sure, but just because you consider something to be obvious, doesn't make it true. Some women do just as much as men, and they should be paid equally. Some women do very little, and they should be paid accordingly little. Some men do very little too.
This.

(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
The thing is, women need to decide between a career and having children. As long as they're happy to take maternity leave at a cost to the company they work for, they have no right to be paid the same as men. Not because men are better, but because it makes no sense for a company to invest as much in a woman instead of a man when the woman can, by law, take maternity leave and still cost the company money for absolutely NO productivity.
Yeah, because supporting the continued existence of the human race is pretty stupid.
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Solid_Snake_100
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No, and the main reason I feel this way is because I honestly believe that women's main job should be to look after their children. Now obviously I have nothing against equal pay/time put in, but in general, why should employers have to pay of a fixed salary to workers who are a far greater productivity risk (illness and maturity leave) than those who aren't (men). I don't mind so much for single women, but i have always held some contempt for women who put their job infront of their family.
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Ed.
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If men and women are doing the same job they should be paid the same. Speaks for itself really.
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ocelotrevs
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If they're doing the same job, to the same level, and putting the same effort in, then yes they should be paid the same.

If they're not doing an equal amount of work, then they shouldn't be paid the same. That goes for everything though.
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This Is Not A Username
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If a man and a woman are doing the same job they should be paid the same.

It's simple.

I think it is clear to all logical minds that men pursue education that will lead to more profitable careers, they are willing to work in dangerous environments, they will work more hours, travel further and they will not be taking 9 months off everytime they feel broody.

It seems you have totally missed the point about equal pay. If more men pursue the education that leads to a more profitable career they will get that career, if women pursue the same education, and get the same qualifications they should get the same pay for the same job as the man.

I don't see how gender can be brought into it.
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Solid_Snake_100
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(Original post by This Is Not A Username)
It seems you have totally missed the point about equal pay. If more men pursue the education that leads to a more profitable career they will get that career, if women pursue the same education, and get the same qualifications they should get the same pay for the same job as the man.

I don't see how gender can be brought into it.
No because you're not factoring in the extra risk which an employer takes on by employing a woman rather than a man. Even Alan Sugar has said hhe is more reluctant to hire women than men because of maturnity leave, family problems etc...
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shorty.loves.angels
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(Original post by only nihilism)
You're agreeing with the OP, he's talking averages not specifics (I think)
I did think that to start with but this bit got me...

'I think it is clear to all logical minds that men... they are willing to work in dangerous environments, they will work more hours, travel further'

It seems like the OP is saying that men just are better, forgive me if I'm wrong... :p:

OK, put differently yes i think it's unfair to give women equal pay if they are infact doing less when they could be doing more (if they can't feasibly work to the same standard then i think i would tend to think that they deserve equal pay providing that they are putting in equal effort etc)
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Bornstubborn
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I am sorry but you people are disregarding some facts. It is factual that men work more hours than women on average, it is factual men take up riskier work than women, its factual that men persue an education that will result in a higher paid career and its factual that men will travel further for work.

I recently read a report about what jobs male and female graduates were looking for. The male top jobs were along the lines of managers, accountants and engineers whereas the women were interested in teaching and voluntary/charity work. Is it wrong that these men who go into important proffesions get paid more.

If we were to make pay 'equal', i think it would result in everyone getting paid less rather than women getting paid more.

I think many of you are missing the point. The article i read stated how much people were earning based on whether they were doing full time work or part time work, it didn't factor in the job, the risk factor, the amount of travel, experience and education. It just said women are getting discriminated against because men are earning more in part time and full time jobs.
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magicalponies
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This topic came up in my summer business exam and I was really shocked because I didn't even know woman still got paid less than the men doing the same job.

I think these gender inquality issues are terrible. Of course woman should get paid the same as men if they're doing the same thing. In todays world men and woman should be seen as equal and so this should go as far as earnings too!
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shorty.loves.angels
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I am sorry but you people are disregarding some facts. It is factual that men work more hours than women on average, it is factual men take up riskier work than women, its factual that men persue an education that will result in a higher paid career and its factual that men will travel further for work.

I recently read a report about what jobs male and female graduates were looking for. The male top jobs were along the lines of managers, accountants and engineers whereas the women were interested in teaching and voluntary/charity work. Is it wrong that these men who go into important proffesions get paid more.

If we were to make pay 'equal', i think it would result in everyone getting paid less rather than women getting paid more.
I understand this but what if some women did exactly the same as men, same education same career etc... then she deserves equal pay right? and those who do less/have less education deserve less...?
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