MAX-OT vs Ripptoe - opinions Watch

rummang
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I checked out both of these programs and they both seem really good.

MAX-OT seems to be a bit more in-depth and descriptive of what you're doing and why. With this program you work 5 days a week with quite a few workouts for each muscle group you work and it seems to focus on working the heaviest weights you can - it tells you to work between 4 and 6 reps, where on 6 you're basically stuck.

12 week workout.

Ripptoe's program seems like a basic workout, it's 3 days per week and is based on around 6-7 different workouts. It goes with the average reps of 8-10. There's not much more I know about this workout regime.

13 week workout.

Now my question is, which workout would you guys recommend if I'm looking for fully-body muscle gain?

edit: currently I'm leaning towards the MAX-OT plan.
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nota bene
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I used a heavily changed version of Max-OT last year, and it was working great. Don't know that much about Rippetoe's, except that it is supposed to be good, but 8-10 reps is a bit much I think, I'd go down a bit there - at least in your standard workout. Like once every 8th or so week I normally change rep range for 2-3 weeks to stimulate the muscles and avoid plateaus.
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rummang
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Hm, what did you 'heavily change' in your MAX-OT regime? I wouldn't really know where to start with changes in any plan to be honest :<
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nota bene
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I basically changed everything, took out some of the exercises for various reasons (not having the equipment, not being able to do the exercise due to injury etc.) and substituted them with others; I swapped days when I felt like it, and sometimes changed the muscle group splits; mostly due to being too tired in the specific muscle group, or because I feel that chest+biceps work better then shoulders+biceps, or whatever (now this is an incorrect example because I think chest+biceps is great, but to give you an idea). Also, sometimes going over or under the suggested number of sets per muscle group depending on how tired I were. But I think the regime is a decent one to start from - you just need to realise you don't need to do everything the programme tells you, literally.
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Bebbs
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(Original post by rummang)

Ripptoe's program seems like a basic workout, it's 3 days per week and is based on around 6-7 different workouts. It goes with the average reps of 8-10. There's not much more I know about this workout regime.

13 week workout.

wel i know very little of max-ot but know alot of rippetoes. So between me and notabane i think we've got it covered.

This version of rippetoes sounds nothing like his programs outlined in SS:BBT or PPT, Where did you get this information?

Rippetoes Starting stregnth program is the program almost everyone should start it. It uses 2 workouts of squats 3x5, powercleans 5x5, and presses 3x5. alternating that with squats 3x5, deadliftsx5 and benchpress 3x5.

Starting strength (or Bill Stars 5x5 program) are the best programs for beginners IMO. The workload you've described for MAX-OT seems excessive for a beginnner, as you can get the same results with less work.

Starting strength is a sub maximal program, (not to failure) due to the repetitions of the same exercises could fry your CNS if repeatly done to failure.

One of the principles is progressive overload. IN the beginning few weeks of SS you will be adding 2.5kg to every lift every workout. Until this slows then you add 2.5kg per week, then you start microloading i.e. 1kg plates etc.

I 110% recommend buying the book SS:BBT as the he goes into form in incredible detail, like 50pages per lift.

SS will be excellent for any beginner. What is your current base level of fitness?
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Misogynist
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Well, It depends

Starting Strength is a beginner to intermediate training routine with a linear progression and is primarily strength oriented. Total compound lifts, and is aimed at almost every individual.

MAX-OT is sort of a specialised routine, but you need to have a great recovery time to even think about going on this program. It'll work for a few weeks, but then you'll crash big time if your diet, sleep and recovery aren't in check. (As in sleeping 15 hours a day and so on.)

Also, It's lifting to failure almost every set. 'Positive failure' is what they call it but it's failure all the same.

I'd stick with SS.
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Bebbs
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OP:

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 987,156
Warnings Level: 1

Strong post: join date ratio
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supernova2
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(Original post by Bebbs)
OP:

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 987,156
Warnings Level: 1

Strong post: join date ratio
Thats obviously an error.
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rummang
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(Original post by Bebbs)
SS will be excellent for any beginner. What is your current base level of fitness?
Don't really know how to define this other than saying I've been going to the gym for a total of around 2 months. 1 month straight (4 days per week), then like a few days a week on and off over the past like 2 months.

I've got a copy of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Anything else I need to know? Or will this book tell me everything I need to know? e.g. a workout plan and exercises to do.

edit: 50 pages on squats alone. Ha. Is it important I read every single page of this book? I understand it's important to have the correct technique, but I'm sure that's something I'll learn over time and the gym trainers can help me with, not something I'll get straight off the bat by reading from a book. I've already done most of these exercises before and I know how to execute them.

Oh and I was planning on starting my workout today, but as I've changed my plan from the MAX-OT to Rippetoe's, I'm starting tomorrow...so I don't really have time to read 50 pages on squats.
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Sandhu
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Lol, insane error! His rep will be worth like 5 gems!!

Anyway, Ripptoe's is great man, stick with it.
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Essex_B
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where are the programs?
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Bebbs
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(Original post by rummang)
Don't really know how to define this other than saying I've been going to the gym for a total of around 2 months. 1 month straight (4 days per week), then like a few days a week on and off over the past like 2 months.

I've got a copy of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Anything else I need to know? Or will this book tell me everything I need to know? e.g. a workout plan and exercises to do.

Sounds like your perfect for starting strength then. I outline the program in my post above.

A
Squats 3x5
Deadlifts 1x5
Benchpress 3x5

B
Squats 3x5
Powercleans 5x3
Press 3x5

To find your starting weight, start with the bar, and add 10lbs until the bar speed begins to slow for sets of 5. THis is your starting weight. Aim to add 2.5kg(5lbs) each time you lift.

Read the book for info on all the lifts. Its very informative.

Please rep me, if it thinks you've made 100,000 posts it must be worth loads.






(Original post by Essex_B)
where are the programs?
Buy the book or use google. Rippetoes is normally *******ised online thats why I posted it above
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Bebbs
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(Original post by rummang)
edit: 50 pages on squats alone. Ha. Is it important I read every single page of this book? I understand it's important to have the correct technique, but I'm sure that's something I'll learn over time and the gym trainers can help me with, not something I'll get straight off the bat by reading from a book. I've already done most of these exercises before and I know how to execute them.

Oh and I was planning on starting my workout today, but as I've changed my plan from the MAX-OT to Rippetoe's, I'm starting tomorrow...so I don't really have time to read 50 pages on squats.

Well i've read every page. I skipped over some of the intensive elements. Most you can skim the squat section pretty quickly to get all of the information. It is definatly worth reading throughthe whole thing though. Especially the cleans section.

For now if your squatting form is decent its not essential to read the book straight away, but start it asap
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rummang
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Is it OK to start doing the workout on the smith machine rather than free weights and then move on to free weights once you feel a bit more comfortable? Also, is it possible to do Powercleans and the Press on the smith machine? I was just wondering as the demonstrations I've seen it looks like the weight changes position a little bit -in terms of distance from your body- which I think would be hard to copy on a smith machine, considering the weight is in a static position.

Thanks for all the help btw!
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Bebbs
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(Original post by rummang)
Is it OK to start doing the workout on the smith machine rather than free weights and then move on to free weights once you feel a bit more comfortable? Also, is it possible to do Powercleans and the Press on the smith machine? I was just wondering as the demonstrations I've seen it looks like the weight changes position a little bit -in terms of distance from your body- which I think would be hard to copy on a smith machine, considering the weight is in a static position.

Thanks for all the help btw!
I see what you did there!


to be honest: No. The fact that smith machines work on such a fixed plane mean that your body recruits no stablizer muscles, and can lead to underdevelopment and increased risk of injury. Start on free weights, you should be started on such a lightweight it feels comfortable. By the time you add on enough weight for it to be considered heavy, you feel more comfortable.


Powercleans IMO would be impossible on a smith machine, it has the right plane of movement. But dont they lock when the weight goes down to fast, i.e. at the top of the clean. also i find the bb is further back at the top (clean grip) than at the bottom of the movement so that wouldnt work.
Presses can work on the machine, but as i said. Rippetoes is a core strength workout, by negelcting your stablizer muscles you are missing most of the beneift
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Misogynist
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Powercleans are impossible on a smith machine. Don't even think about it.
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rummang
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Alright thanks guys. I'll probably do the following to start out:

Smith machine:
Squats
Bench Press
Seated press

Free-weight:
Deadlifts
Powercleans

And then gradually move the 'smith machine' over to 'free-weights' and change the 'seated press' to a standard standing 'military press'.

I've repped people ; )
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Misogynist
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(Original post by rummang)
Alright thanks guys. I'll probably do the following to start out:

Smith machine:
Squats
Bench Press
Seated press

Free-weight:
Deadlifts
Powercleans

And then gradually move the 'smith machine' over to 'free-weights' and change the 'seated press' to a standard standing 'military press'.

I've repped people ; )
How are you going to start out on a smith machine and do Powercleans, deads and squats?
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Herr Stamper
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(Original post by Misogynist)
How are you going to start out on a smith machine and do Powercleans, deads and squats?
Its easy to do squats/deads on a smith but powercleans are a no. Can't understand the logic behind using a smith before free weights.
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Misogynist
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(Original post by Herr Stamper)
Its easy to do squats/deads on a smith but powercleans are a no. Can't understand the logic behind using a smith before free weights.
It's not that you can or can't do them. You probably can, but you'd be doing them wrong. Your body is static in a smith machine messing the whole movement up.
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