McDonalds staff strike for £15p/h + guaranteed hours Watch

ozzyoscy
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#61
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#61
(Original post by z-hog)
In a way, this illustrates one of the flaws in the leftist mindset: they simply don't understand the world and therefore should never be allowed near positions of influence in it. Sadly, the education business now seems to specialise in removing people's ability to think and turn them into something that reacts only to emotional prodding. Not by accident but by design from people who shouldn't be allowed near positions of influence in society.
Do you think these are the normal words of someone who should be allowed near positions of influence in society?
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Emmie1001
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(Original post by Napp)
Probably because
a) a fair number are students and young people, not exactly the most employable demographic
b) theyre not overly qualified for other jobs?
(Original post by Napp)
Probably because
a) a fair number are students and young people, not exactly the most employable demographic
b) theyre not overly qualified for other jobs?
(Original post by Napp)
Probably because
a) a fair number are students and young people, not exactly the most employable demographic
b) theyre not overly qualified for other jobs?
You do need a special skill set to be a groomer. A lot of people who know nothing about grooming do not understand how difficult and how much knowledge is needed. Not just anyone can groom dogs. You have to go through a lengthy training process on how to cut, all the different breed standard cuts, use of very sharp equipment, first aid for dogs, behaviour of the dogs and how to deal with all kinds of dogs ranging from really old to very aggressive. There is a technical skill which can be tricky to execute correctly without the proper training needed. There needs to be complete patience and the ability to manage temperamental dogs (trained in behaviour of the animal Nd how to read them) precision and grooming knowledge is essential. You need to know basic knowledge of the health and anatomy of the animal. You also have to unfortunately have the people skills as well XD I could go on and on but I’m going to shut up and leave it at That xD

I’m not saying working in McDonald’s isn’t a skill, it just requires a skill that anyone can easily do with little to no training, anyone can work at McDonald’s. But that’s just my opinion, I don’t think McDonald’s workers should get anywhere near £15 for that line of work when there are jobs that require more skills getting paid less 🤗
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bennyj901
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1) You shouldnt be working in McDonalds if it is going to be your sole source of income
2) If you work full time in McDonalds (40 hours per week) and making £15 an hour you are close to university graduate salaries.....for flipping burgers (not even a manager who will inevitably ask for a pay rise if this passes).
3) If this passes then expect the many poor families who rely on McDonalds to be screwed, or...
4) No more part time jobs for students who cannot provide at least £15p/h worth of labour
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mnot
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(Original post by bennyj901)
1) You shouldnt be working in McDonalds if it is going to be your sole source of income
2) If you work full time in McDonalds (40 hours per week) and making £15 an hour you are close to university graduate salaries.....for flipping burgers (not even a manager who will inevitably ask for a pay rise if this passes).
3) If this passes then expect the many poor families who rely on McDonalds to be screwed, or...
4) No more part time jobs for students who cannot provide at least £15p/h worth of labour
IF they got a £15/hr wage you would see one of the fastest changes in automation, McD self service tills would become even more prevalent, cooking and in-store operations would become even more robot/tech based.
Employees would be laid off long term, students/young people will find it harder to get part time work.
£15/hr wont work.
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bennyj901
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(Original post by mnot)
IF they got a £15/hr wage you would see one of the fastest changes in automation, McD self service tills would become even more prevalent, cooking and in-store operations would become even more robot/tech based.
Employees would be laid off long term, students/young people will find it harder to get part time work.
£15/hr wont work.
Make that 'IF' bigger.
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Napp
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(Original post by Emmie1001)
You do need a special skill set to be a groomer. A lot of people who know nothing about grooming do not understand how difficult and how much knowledge is needed. Not just anyone can groom dogs. You have to go through a lengthy training process on how to cut, all the different breed standard cuts, use of very sharp equipment, first aid for dogs, behaviour of the dogs and how to deal with all kinds of dogs ranging from really old to very aggressive. There is a technical skill which can be tricky to execute correctly without the proper training needed. There needs to be complete patience and the ability to manage temperamental dogs (trained in behaviour of the animal Nd how to read them) precision and grooming knowledge is essential. You need to know basic knowledge of the health and anatomy of the animal. You also have to unfortunately have the people skills as well XD I could go on and on but I’m going to shut up and leave it at That xD
Thanks a lot for the detailed answer
I’m not saying working in McDonald’s isn’t a skill, it just requires a skill that anyone can easily do with little to no training, anyone can work at McDonald’s. But that’s just my opinion, I don’t think McDonald’s workers should get anywhere near £15 for that line of work when there are jobs that require more skills getting paid less 🤗
Mmm alas it tends to be a life lesson though that that happens though, to take junior doctors as an example per excellence they used to earn absolute peanuts, they probably still do for that matter aha
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ozzyoscy
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#67
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(Original post by mnot)
IF they got a £15/hr wage you would see one of the fastest changes in automation, McD self service tills would become even more prevalent, cooking and in-store operations would become even more robot/tech based.
Employees would be laid off long term, students/young people will find it harder to get part time work.
£15/hr wont work.
I don't see robot chefs, servers and cleaners in McDonalds' near-future...

All the ones I've been to have self-service already. I'm not sure what else they could automate.
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mnot
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(Original post by ozzyoscy)
I don't see robot chefs, servers and cleaners in McDonalds' near-future...

All the ones I've been to have self-service already. I'm not sure what else they could automate.
I was worried my term robots might be interpreted slightly wrong, I mean more as in the functional equivalents you get in mass manufacturing, they definitely have the capability of slimming down the cooking staff the only thing is is the R&D and capital cost, Operating costs will be way more efficient, if £15/hr were to go through im sure they McD & franchises will invest a bit up front for the long term capital amortisation benefits a bit more tech would lead to lower Opex long term.

You'd be surprised what you can automate, robots can build micro pcs's, build vehicle body structures, bio tissue experiments... almost anything that comes out of a factory today is highly automated. A few sensors, and a bit of basic electro-mechanics the product can easily be manufactured. wide scale calibration and ensuring product quality requirements maccies would require in every store is probably the bigger challenge imo but as I say im sure at £15/hr v the amortised cost of the R&D suddenly becomes very competitive .
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ozzyoscy
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(Original post by mnot)
I was worried my term robots might be interpreted slightly wrong, I mean more as in the functional equivalents you get in mass manufacturing, they definitely have the capability of slimming down the cooking staff the only thing is is the R&D and capital cost, Operating costs will be way more efficient, if £15/hr were to go through im sure they McD & franchises will invest a bit up front for the long term capital amortisation benefits a bit more tech would lead to lower Opex long term.

You'd be surprised what you can automate, robots can build micro pcs's, build vehicle body structures, bio tissue experiments... almost anything that comes out of a factory today is highly automated. A few sensors, and a bit of basic electro-mechanics the product can easily be manufactured. wide scale calibration and ensuring product quality requirements maccies would require in every store is probably the bigger challenge imo but as I say im sure at £15/hr v the amortised cost of the R&D suddenly becomes very competitive .
In what ways can the cooking aspect be slimmed down?

And what other restaurants currently use this tech?

How would they fit these large machines into their current cooking areas?

Keep in mind you'd just probably end up replacing the staff with technicians.
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JWatch
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(Original post by bennyj901)
1) You shouldnt be working in McDonalds if it is going to be your sole source of income
Why not? You shouldn't have to work in multiple jobs just to have a basic standard of living. Every full time job no matter how skilled or unskilled should pay enough to provide that person with a basic standard of living.
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mnot
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(Original post by ozzyoscy)
In what ways can the cooking aspect be slimmed down?

And what other restaurants currently use this tech?

How would they fit these large machines into their current cooking areas?

Keep in mind you'd just probably end up replacing the staff with technicians.
1) Well you automate the process between, storage to cooking and cooking to assembly hence less people are required to make & deliver the food...

2) Not many fast food restaurants do (as no other similar competitors are paying £15/hr), but the required tech is used in almost every factory and mass manufacturing operation including in food & drink preparation.

3) what makes you think they would be Large? if anything it would be similar size to the current kitchen equipment, I suspect thats driven by the size of the product rather than the tech...

4) Yes maintenance staff would be required but if you can replace 8-10 active staff with 3-4 and only 1 technician (not to mention most of the maintenance staff would likely be mobile ie spread over several stores).

Go have a look in a car factory or baked bean, or soft drink factory you will see just how impressive robotic automation has become.
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Laurence863
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(Original post by StriderHort)
I don't think you can dismiss an entire discussion over living wage with 'most young people don't need a living wage'

I suspect you're also wrong about the profession, WTF do McDonalds staff know about making burgers? As opposed to say, a chef?
Well they don't, it's most certainly a low minority that do. You're saying it yourself, mcdonalds is menial and simple compared to other jobs, so why should people that work there be payed more? £9 is low for living wage sure, but the job appeals to students and those looking to work part time.

They know more than the average joe?

I could wash, shampoo and comb my dog, and also make a burger for lunch after. Neither of those things mean im cut out for the job though.
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Laurence863
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(Original post by mnot)
I was worried my term robots might be interpreted slightly wrong, I mean more as in the functional equivalents you get in mass manufacturing, they definitely have the capability of slimming down the cooking staff the only thing is is the R&D and capital cost, Operating costs will be way more efficient, if £15/hr were to go through im sure they McD & franchises will invest a bit up front for the long term capital amortisation benefits a bit more tech would lead to lower Opex long term.

You'd be surprised what you can automate, robots can build micro pcs's, build vehicle body structures, bio tissue experiments... almost anything that comes out of a factory today is highly automated. A few sensors, and a bit of basic electro-mechanics the product can easily be manufactured. wide scale calibration and ensuring product quality requirements maccies would require in every store is probably the bigger challenge imo but as I say im sure at £15/hr v the amortised cost of the R&D suddenly becomes very competitive .
So what you're sayingggg is, rather than having a team of 10 payed £9 an hour, you'd fire like 6-7 of them and pay them £15 an hour?
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grKiro
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That’s sounds Milking!
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SteveObolowongai
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(Original post by ozzyoscy)
https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/11/im-jo...erty-11071395/

Guaranteed hours - sure.

But £15 p/h? The worker in the article feels "trapped" at getting £9.47 p/h, which is already more than the going rate for baristas, entry-level retail etc.

Don't McDonalds etc. get tonnes of applicants too? I'm all for it if every other job gets a fair wage bump to reflect their comparitive staff turnover and skills required.
Personally I think this is disgraceful. That would make it more than the average wage of a Nurse - someone who as studied at university for 3 years, works ungodly hours, has above average intelligence and devotes their life for the good of others. If this joke of a campaign goes through, we'll have a nation of McDonalds workers, as everyone who got under 3 GCSEs will all just go to that. You get paid what you are worth in terms of your skills and knowledge, flipping burgers is about as low skilled as you can get. In my opinion, I think anyone with an IQ above 15 could competently work at McDonalds.
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ozzyoscy
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#76
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(Original post by mnot)
1) Well you automate the process between, storage to cooking and cooking to assembly hence less people are required to make & deliver the food...

2) Not many fast food restaurants do (as no other similar competitors are paying £15/hr), but the required tech is used in almost every factory and mass manufacturing operation including in food & drink preparation.

3) what makes you think they would be Large? if anything it would be similar size to the current kitchen equipment, I suspect thats driven by the size of the product rather than the tech...

4) Yes maintenance staff would be required but if you can replace 8-10 active staff with 3-4 and only 1 technician (not to mention most of the maintenance staff would likely be mobile ie spread over several stores).

Go have a look in a car factory or baked bean, or soft drink factory you will see just how impressive robotic automation has become.
I've worked in places with several levels of automation, including effectively full automation, even been a pseudo-technician of them.

You're describing things in your head, but have you actually seen what you're describing? Do you now how revolutionary a fully or even semi-automated kitchen or McDonalds would be, especially how you describe? They would already be used if available, but this is decades in the future, if ever.

Although, you haven't described anything; you just keep saying "automated". I'm guessing you're just imagining an arm picking up a patty, cooking it, moving it on a conveyor belt, adding all the ingredients along the way, putting it in a bun, then moving it along to the customer service area. But that's just for one specific burger, the machines have to pick out every different kind of order, make it to the proper standard, and deliver it, without error or cross-contamination, especially given allergies.

Factories that use these complex machines are huge and loud. A line that goes through creating a product, going through QA, testing it, and packaging it, requires multiple machines, not one magical machine. And if it was one machine, it would be the size of a factory. Then consider, to keep customers happy, you'd need 3 at least to deal with all the orders and breakdowns. And then you'd need something for the drive-thru.

Staff would still need to be required to man the tills (even if they're self-service), keep an eye on these machines, stock them up, hand food to tables or customers, solve customer problems, cleaning etc. except now you'd be hiring proper degree-qualified technicians to maintain and fix these machines.

The magical fantabulous cartoon conveyor belt you're imagining is decades in the future, if ever. If it was available now, especially microsized to the size of a McDonalds kitchen, fast food places would be using it.

Or you could just hire a dozen people at £15p/h to do all this with less hassle and more efficiency...
Last edited by ozzyoscy; 3 months ago
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mnot
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(Original post by ozzyoscy)
I've worked in places with several levels of automation, including effectively full automation, even been a pseudo-technician of them.

You're describing things in your head, but have you actually seen what you're describing? Do you now how revolutionary a fully or even semi-automated kitchen or McDonalds would be, especially how you describe? They would already be used if available, but this is decades in the future, if ever.

Although, you haven't described anything; you just keep saying "automated". I'm guessing you're just imagining an arm picking up a patty, cooking it, moving it on a conveyor belt, adding all the ingredients along the way, putting it in a bun, then moving it along to the customer service area. But that's just for one specific burger, the machines have to pick out every different kind of order, make it to the proper standard, and deliver it, without error or cross-contamination, especially given allergies.

Factories that use these complex machines are huge and loud. A line that goes through creating a product, going through QA, testing it, and packaging it, requires multiple machines, not one magical machine. And if it was one machine, it would be the size of a factory. Then consider, to keep customers happy, you'd need 3 at least to deal with all the orders and breakdowns. And then you'd need something for the drive-thru.

Staff would still need to be required to man the tills (even if they're self-service), keep an eye on these machines, stock them up, fix them when they break down or screw up, hand food to tables or customers, solve customer problems, cleaning etc.

The magical fantabulous cartoon conveyor belt you're imagining is decades in the future, if ever. If it was available now, especially microsized to the size of a McDonalds kitchen, fast food places would be using it.

Or you could just hire a dozen people at £15p/h to do all this with less hassle and more efficiency...
Yea i used to work in quality engineering in a car factory ive seen automation, its ability is wide scale the tech exists its just a question of cost, im saying the lower opex would offset the difference once you move to £15/hr after amortisation of the R&D & capex .
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ozzyoscy
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#78
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Well, unsurprisingly, it looks like this achieved **** all.
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Rakas21
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#79
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While i have sympathy for the working poor £9.47 for all employees is actually above both the new minimum wage from April and also the market rate (even supermarkets don't pay that and they tend to be good for retail). McDonalds staff are being pretty greedy here and should instead be fighting for things like longer breaks and paid breaks since it is not conceivable that they will get much above £10.

I have more sympathy for those who don't wish to be on zero hour contracts however there are only two real solutions here..

1) Put everybody on a 1 hour contract

2) Mandate that employees who have been there 3 months get a contract based on the hours they have worked (optional contract for the employee of course, some may prefer zero hours contracts).

At any rate these staff are being excessive in their demands.
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