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USA: Israeli settlements on the West Bank don't violate international law

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Original post by A Rolling Stone
wakey wakey. you're not paying attention. i am making the case the UN (and hence it's actions) is illegitimate as there is no demos it is accountable to.

Then Israel is also an illigitimate settler state founded by European Jewish settlers and a remenant of British colonialism.

So next time Iran or whatever country goes on about wiping Israel off the map, you should care less because by your standards if a more powerful nation emerged and was able to conquer Israel they would have every right as "international law is illegetimate". You can't have your cake and eat it.

Btw if we take your standards further then Nazis shouldn't have been put on trial at Nuremberg.
Original post by Bobbythruth
Then Israel is also an illigitimate settler state founded by European Jewish settlers and a remenant of British colonialism.

So next time Iran or whatever country goes on about wiping Israel off the map, you should care less because by your standards if a more powerful nation emerged and was able to conquer Israel they would have every right as "international law is illegetimate". You can't have your cake and eat it.

Btw if we take your standards further then Nazis shouldn't have been put on trial at Nuremberg.

but israel won the land in a defensive war. this is key.

and in Israel, the demos is the Israeli electorate. genius.
Reply 22
Original post by A Rolling Stone
wakey wakey. you're not paying attention. i am making the case the UN (and hence it's actions) is illegitimate as there is no demos it is accountable to.

Pray tell how you came to that conclusion? given that it is quite literally the embodiment of the international community.
Original post by A Rolling Stone
but israel won the land in a defensive war. this is key.

You seem to be confusing offensive and defensive...

and in Israel, the demos is the Israeli electorate. genius.

Except the ones who arent in the electorate then? :rolleyes:
Original post by A Rolling Stone
but israel won the land in a defensive war. this is key.

You can't 'win' land in a war, even if the war is "defensive" (which it wasn't, but that's irrelevant).
Reply 24
Original post by Palmyra
You can't 'win' land in a war, even if the war is "defensive" (which it wasn't, but that's irrelevant).

War is starting to sound frightfully like a game of poker now..
Original post by londonmyst
I was surprised.
If it had been an announcement of increased military aid or grants, I wouldn't have blinked at all.
I'm not suggesting that the Trump administration's decision is wrong, only rather unexpected.

Quite a few Democratic and Republican senators have close links with various pro-Israel organisations.
America has long been a staunch ally of Israel- under both Democrat and Republican administrations.
Since the 1960s almost every Democratic and Republican Party presidential nominee has sought to established dialogue with America's largest pro-Israel lobby AIPAC with a view to seeking their support or recognition as pro-Israel candidates.

According to the AIPAC website:
"AIPAC works with Democrats and Republicans"
"The United States Congress has provided Israel with the strongest support of any institution in the world.
Maintaining bipartisan congressional support for Israel is crucial."


Honestly it’s not that surprising. Many Republicans and several Democrats are Pro Israel, whether for personal or other reasons. Netanyahu also knows that Trump would ally with him if he wanted to keep the majority of his fan base excluding White Supremacists. As long as Trump stays loyal to his Conservative supporters, he will continue to have their support. There’s also the threat of the supposed ‘anti Israel’ candidates like Bernie Sanders and other Progressives who seek to take a harsher stance against Israel.
(edited 4 years ago)
It makes no practical difference to US policy.

Trump is simply trying to distract his supporters from the impeachment hearings by generating a headline that most of them will consider positive.

It has nothing to do with Israel or the Middle East, and everything to do with Trump's own re-election campaign.
Original post by londonmyst
I was surprised.
If it had been an announcement of increased military aid or grants, I wouldn't have blinked at all.

I would certainly have been more surprised if this had happened - it would have been an actual policy change that involved increased US government spending.

Trump's statement today? A politically painless gesture that will please his supporters without costing anything. Not surprising at all really.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by A Rolling Stone
but israel won the land in a defensive war. this is key.

and in Israel, the demos is the Israeli electorate. genius.

Who determines whether a war was offensive or defensive. Those who fought Israel in 1948 would have argued that they were defending their land from European Jewish settlers.
Original post by Napp
War is starting to sound frightfully like a game of poker now..

One colonial settler-state supporting the colonial expansion of - and ethnic cleansing by - another colonial settler-state, who could have seen that coming? :tongue:
Reply 30
Original post by Palmyra
One colonial settler-state supporting the colonial expansion of - and ethnic cleansing by - another colonial settler-state, who could have seen that coming? :tongue:

It is utterly shocking isnt it, my monocle even fell in my tea!
Reply 31
I can be whoever you want me to be...
Reply 32
Original post by A Rolling Stone
but israel won the land in a defensive war. this is key.

Yeah, that makes sense.
Reply 33
Just a quick reminder that anyone objecting to this policy, or the original settlements, is officially Anti-Semitic.
Original post by Bobbythruth
Then Israel is also an illigitimate settler state founded by European Jewish settlers and a remenant of British colonialism.

So next time Iran or whatever country goes on about wiping Israel off the map, you should care less because by your standards if a more powerful nation emerged and was able to conquer Israel they would have every right as "international law is illegetimate". You can't have your cake and eat it.

That wiping off the map quote translation is of dubious authenticity.
Even Persians who have fled the mullah's regime and support military action to topple it, complain that the quote sounds like a work of fiction.
According to them, no such phrase exists in the farsi language.
Original post by Bobbythruth
Who determines whether a war was offensive or defensive

The history books (usually written by the winning side).
Ultimately posterity.
Original post by QE2
Just a quick reminder that anyone objecting to this policy, or the original settlements, is officially Anti-Semitic.

Many fervent zionists, orthodox jews and disgruntled Israeli taxpayers living in other areas have issues with the West Bank settlements.
Particularly as regards those residential complexes housing settlers who emigrated from the soviet union for economic reasons.
Something of a hostile perception exists of some settlements, accompanied by allegations that the occupants are atheists who don't seem to share many of the cultural taboos or partake of the religious traditions that many Israelis view as central components of a jewish-Israeli identity whilst living in Israel.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 37
Original post by londonmyst
Many fervent zionists, orthodox jews and disgruntled Israeli taxpayer living in other areas have issues with the West Bank settlements.
Particularly as regards those residential complexes housing settlers who emigrated from the soviet union for economic reasons.
Something of a hostile perception exists of some settlements, accompanied by allegations that the occupants are atheists who don't seem to share many of the cultural taboos or partake of the religious traditions that many Israelis view as central components of a jewish-Israeli identity whilst living in Israel.

Maybe but theyre also one of, if not the, most important demographic in elections there due to their huge numbers.
Original post by Napp
Maybe but theyre also one of, if not the, most important demographic in elections there due to their huge numbers.

As are the haredi, who tend to have even larger families than most other Israelis.
But often the lifestyles of both groups have the effect of fuelling hostility from the locals of Tel Aviv & Haifa and antagonising the military.
Reply 39
Original post by londonmyst
As are the haredi, who tend to have even larger families than most other Israelis.
But often the lifestyles of both groups have the effect of fuelling hostility from the locals of Tel Aviv & Haifa and antagonising the military.

Indeed, theyre causing some serious angst for the IDF these days with their preference for burying their noses in scrolls as opposed to shooting Arabs :lol:
Demographic changes can have some very interesting second and third order effects it seems.

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