General Election 2019: Question Time Showdown. Watch

Occitanie
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https://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-2019-50511893

Happy and ready to watch 4 cretins squirm.

Who else?
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Occitanie)
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-2019-50511893

Happy and ready to watch 4 cretins squirm.

Who else?
I'm watching now I actually came to start a thread and saw I was beaten to it. Do forgive me if I take to posting my thoughts in here and gatecrash a little!
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CatusStarbright
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Jeremy Corbyn:

He's now committed to taking a neutral stance in his proposed second referendum concerning a deal he plans to negotiate himself.

Interesting arguments around the broadband policy - 'How do people access the benefits system if they don't have a computer at home' - the library (for sure)? The job centre maybe? Citizens' Advice Bureau maybe?

He may have annoyed the Scots: 'I won't allow an independence referendum because I want to implement my investment programme across the whole UK'. He seems to be basically saying that he wants to impose his programme upon the Scots before they are allowed to have a referendum on whether they want to remain under the control of Westminster or have their independence.
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CatusStarbright
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Nicola Sturgeon:

I wonder whether a lot of Nicola's support comes from her push for an independence referendum. How would her party poll in a hypothetical post-Scottish independence world?

She's arguing Westminster doesn't have the (moral or democratic) right to block a request for another independence referendum which is very interesting. However as has been discussed, Spain would not want an independent Scotland to join the EU if that independence was not achieved legally and constitutionally (given their experience with separatists).

It's also mad that a mainly Scottish party could hold the balance of power in Westminster in the event of a hung Parliament.

On democracy and referendums generally: 'in a democracy, people should have the right to change their mind'.

I have to say that I do really like her honesty and find it refreshing. On the topic of drug deaths in Scotland she's more than happy to say that there is more to be done, but she also believes in her policies and that they will make a difference.

I've actually really enjoyed hearing from Sturgeon as I don't usually hear what she has to say (not being Scottish and all)!
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barnetlad
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I'm giving it a miss. Vote Green for the real alternative.
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the bear
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apparently Ms Swinson has crashed & burned....
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the bear
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https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&...ult&q=%23bbcqt
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CatusStarbright
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Jo Swinson:

She somehow seems to think that there's some chance she could be PM....

The Lib Dems are still being punished for coalition I see. Swinson is having to eat humble pie for it continuously, both in the face of students and those attacking her over austerity under the coalition government.

I hate that she want so revoke Article 50 with a referendum. I think only another referendum could revoke what was started by a referendum. However she's not wrong by stating that if she is given a majority there would be a mandate for her to do that as she has been clear on that policy from the beginning of this campaign, and even before. At least she's being honest about what she wants and will do.

The bar charts have been mentioned!

People are confusing student debt with actual we'll-take-your-house-if-you-don't-pay debt.

Tough questions being asked about splitting the 'opposition vote' as I call it, meaning the non-Tory/Brexit party vote. I actually feel bad for her, there seems to be a lot of anger in the room toward her and her party and she's getting much tougher questions than the previous two leaders.

(I know I'm behind, it keeps crashing on me)
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by barnetlad)
I'm giving it a miss. Vote Green for the real alternative.
I'm an undecided voter so this is helping.
(Original post by the bear)
apparently Ms Swinson has crashed & burned....
She's just been attacked from all sides, but I think she defended herself well as she could have done.
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CatusStarbright
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Boris Johnson:

'I'm going to be honest with you tonight' - will you though? I think he's already won the 'who gets the most discontented mutterings' contest already however (4 minutes in).

He's used the 'one nation' phrase again.

The flooding issue has been raised. The decisions he made there were bad, especially this close to an election and given he can ordinarily expect a good amount of support from the northern, more leave-voting areas.

The Russian interference report is clearly a thorn in Boris' side as well, and one that he needs to deal with properly. And on the subject of thorny issues: racism and his attitude towards women!

The NHS and austerity is also coming up. Same old, same old there.
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DSilva
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(Original post by barnetlad)
I'm giving it a miss. Vote Green for the real alternative.
Unless you live in the one constituency with a Green MP, you're just going to split the anti-Tory vote.

The end result will be a big Tory majority, not exactly an alternative.
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honestlykms
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Swinson... a big old mess
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BasicMistake
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Corbyn did quite well. I actually think his Brexit position is sensible as he's essentially taking the role of a caretaker or even a civil servant. He hasn't really added much in terms of justifying and explaining his spending plans. I don't think he has converted many skeptics of big government and big spending. He also really needs to address negative perceptions about his leadership and character, when you've got people saying that they're afraid of you being in power, you've got a problem (though the same charge can probably be levelled at others).

Sturgeon outperformed everybody else but she naturally has an easy time in these debates. She doesn't really get criticised for her policies beyond wanting an independence referendum since most of the people in the audience won't be affected by whatever the SNP does. Also, did she say that she would not pursue a second Scottish referendum if the UK remains in the EU? Could be a boost for Scottish Labour?

Swinson, for all her efforts, suffered in this. The ills of the coalition are still being heaped upon her, rightly or wrongly. She had pretty much no support in the audience and got battered from all sides. Sucks to be the third (non-regional) party. I'm fed up with the issue of student debt and I say that as a student; what kind of debt has repayment based solely on income and gets wiped? Swinson didn't do anything wrong tonight despite what social media is claiming. All her mistakes were made beforehand, from the coalition to the revoke policy.

Johnson clearly carries the baggage of 9 years of Tory government and you can't just wave it off by saying you've been Mayor of London; I think of all the leaders he was the most evasive. Reasons for not releasing the Russia report are weak; I don't even think the contents whatever they are would even matter but it's a point of principle. Honestly, Boris got nothing out of this but I don't think he lost much either.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by BasicMistake)
Corbyn did quite well. I actually think his Brexit position is sensible as he's essentially taking the role of a caretaker or even a civil servant. He hasn't really added much in terms of justifying and explaining his spending plans. I don't think he has converted many skeptics of big government and big spending. He also really needs to address negative perceptions about his leadership and character, when you've got people saying that they're afraid of you being in power, you've got a problem (though the same charge can probably be levelled at others).

Sturgeon outperformed everybody else but she naturally has an easy time in these debates. She doesn't really get criticised for her policies beyond wanting an independence referendum since most of the people in the audience won't be affected by whatever the SNP does. Also, did she say that she would not pursue a second Scottish referendum if the UK remains in the EU? Could be a boost for Scottish Labour?

Swinson, for all her efforts, suffered in this. The ills of the coalition are still being heaped upon her, rightly or wrongly. She had pretty much no support in the audience and got battered from all sides. Sucks to be the third (non-regional) party. I'm fed up with the issue of student debt and I say that as a student; what kind of debt has repayment based solely on income and gets wiped? Swinson didn't do anything wrong tonight despite what social media is claiming. All her mistakes were made beforehand, from the coalition to the revoke policy.

Johnson clearly carries the baggage of 9 years of Tory government and you can't just wave it off by saying you've been Mayor of London; I think of all the leaders he was the most evasive. Reasons for not releasing the Russia report are weak; I don't even think the contents whatever they are would even matter but it's a point of principle. Honestly, Boris got nothing out of this but I don't think he lost much either.
I agree with a lot of this.

I think Corbyn can be considered to have done alright because he clarified his Brexit referendum position to a degree, which was clearly pre-prepared and was something that consumed a good amount of the time. He is still suffering from the antisemitism issue however, and some of the audience members seemed less than convinced by his nationalisation plans.

Sturgeon was good - but of course most of the questions directed at here were about the union - and Swinson was also good in my opinion, but as you say she was still the scapegoat for a lot of people's woes and was on the back foot almost the whole time.

Boris has walked out of this fairly neutrally, though the Russia point was important and the issue of the floods was raised (which I think might pose a problem for him). The racism point seemed to resonate with the audience too.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by honestlykms)
Swinson... a big old mess
The revoke without a referendum is a mistake. Support for austerity was wrong as well, though the mistake can be acknowledged and recognised.

As for voting Green it is not a wasted vote and in some constituencies they have a chance of winning.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by BasicMistake)
Johnson clearly carries the baggage of 9 years of Tory government and you can't just wave it off by saying you've been Mayor of London; I think of all the leaders he was the most evasive. Reasons for not releasing the Russia report are weak; I don't even think the contents whatever they are would even matter but it's a point of principle. Honestly, Boris got nothing out of this but I don't think he lost much either.
Mr Johnson as London Mayor demonstrated how he has no grasp of detail. The Garden Bridge, the expensive buses with a conductor who did not take fares, for example.
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DSilva
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(Original post by barnetlad)
The revoke without a referendum is a mistake. Support for austerity was wrong as well, though the mistake can be acknowledged and recognised.

As for voting Green it is not a wasted vote and in some constituencies they have a chance of winning.
Unless you live in Caroline Lucas's constituency it will be.

Look I sympathise with the Greens a lot. But any vote for them will just split the anti Tory vote. Imagine your seat is won by the Tories by a handful of votes with Labour in second place. How would you feel?
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barnetlad
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(Original post by DSilva)
Unless you live in Caroline Lucas's constituency it will be.

Look I sympathise with the Greens a lot. But any vote for them will just split the anti Tory vote. Imagine your seat is won by the Tories by a handful of votes with Labour in second place. How would you feel?
Shocked. Chipping Barnet is an area where a significant proportion of the electorate are Jewish or like me had Jewish ancestors. The Labour vote collapsed in the last local and European elections given the national party’s inaction over anti Semitic comments by some members.
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DSilva
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(Original post by barnetlad)
Shocked. Chipping Barnet is an area where a significant proportion of the electorate are Jewish or like me had Jewish ancestors. The Labour vote collapsed in the last local and European elections given the national party’s inaction over anti Semitic comments by some members.
Are you kidding me?

Here is what happened in Chipping Barnet in 2017:


Conservative - 25,679
Labour - 25,326
Liberal Democrats - 3,012
Green - 1,406


The Tory majority is less than 400. Greens got 1406 votes, and you think the best way to get the Tories out is to vote Green in this constituency?! The Green party have no chance at all of winning Chipping Barnet.

European elections are irrelevant. Brexit Party won them, I don't think they'll win the GE.

If you really do dislike the Tories as much as you claim, then how on earth could you even contemplate not voting tactically here to get them out?
Last edited by DSilva; 3 weeks ago
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barnetlad
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(Original post by DSilva)
Are you kidding me?

Here is what happened in Chipping Barnet in 2017:


Conservative - 25,679
Labour - 25,326
Liberal Democrats - 3,012
Green - 1,406


The Tory majority is less than 400. Greens got 1406 votes, and you think the best way to get the Tories out is to vote Green in this constituency?! The Green party have no chance at all of winning Chipping Barnet.

European elections are irrelevant. Brexit Party won them, I don't think they'll win the GE.

If you really do dislike the Tories as much as you claim, then how on earth could you even contemplate not voting tactically here to get them out?
I see it as an easy Tory win now. Given how the Labour Party is viewed here.
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