So Mr Corbyn is neutral. Watch

ColinDent
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Seriously,do any of you buy that?
Sorry nearly forgot the link.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0913e6f6c22d8
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DSilva
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Seriously,do any of you buy that?
Sorry nearly forgot the link.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0913e6f6c22d8
If Cameron had been neutral in 2016 he'd still probably be Prime Minister.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by DSilva)
If Cameron had been neutral in 2016 he'd still probably be Prime Minister.
A politician has got to take a stance on such a big issue, remaining neutral is not an option.
I've said this before but sitting on the fence will lose him votes.
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Justvisited
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Amazing. It's like JC never heard of Aneurin Bevan:

We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.
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DSilva
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(Original post by ColinDent)
A politician has got to take a stance on such a big issue, remaining neutral is not an option.
I've said this before but sitting on the fence will lose him votes.
Why? It's a national referendum. He has one vote like the rest of the country.

It also means you have credibility to stay on whatever the result.
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bubblecat
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Think it’s a wise decision. Let the people decide for themselves without all the lies and smear campaigns, and then carry out the peoples decision. Politicians are suppose to serve this country, and by remaining neutral i think Corbyn is going to do just that.
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winterscoming
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(Original post by ColinDent)
A politician has got to take a stance on such a big issue, remaining neutral is not an option.
I don't see why not really. If his stance is "This is an issue for the people to decide, and we'll just do whatever they tell us to do", then that's probably more honest than several other politicians involved. It says that he isn't really too fussed either way (except for being strongly opposed to no-deal), which I think is probably very close to the truth of how he really feels about it.

- Cameron's public stance was that he'd do it, but really his intention was just to silence an internal debate in the Tory party, and he never had any intention of going through with it, hence why he ended up standing outside No. 10 with his tail between his legs and resigning

- May's public stance on it was to appease the Farage'ists and ERG without believing a word of what she was saying ("no deal is better than a bad deal") while privately already realising that no-deal would be a disaster and that the only hope she had was to try for a fudged compromise with the intention of forcing it upon everyone.

- Boris' public stance was "cake and eat it" because he wanted to adopt a contrary position to the man whose job he wanted, yet he had absolutely no plan nor idea of how to do that or what it really meant. But of course, Boris never really wanted to leave in the first place (Next morning after Leave won he was blundering around TV cameras with a face like someone had just killed his dog..). It all went wrong when people actually sided with him and voted to Leave, he ended up needing to reinvent himself as a loud, crass, dithering version of Iain Duncan Smith and collude with the hard-right to perform a hostile takeover of the entire Tory party to get into No.10. He's also had the same intention and realisation as Theresa May - there's only one difference which is that he's been far more successful at getting no-deal Tories to support her deal than she was.


Corbyn has been a euroskeptic for years but hardly a vocal or passionate one, but he's also been opposed to a whole bunch of other stuff that he'll never do anything about - he's more opposed to the Monarchy than he is to the EU, but you can be pretty sure that neither of those things are anywhere near the top of his list of things he actually cares about. Corbyn wants to focus on stuff like nationalisation, not be distracted by constitutional/political issues like Brexit; although that probably puts him somewhat in a similar position to Boris, in that both of them are probably wishing the Leave vote had never happened. (Remain would have been much better for Boris' career - he'd probably have gotten into No.10 much earlier, with Cameron's majority behind him, and we wouldn't be having this general election yet)
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ColinDent
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(Original post by DSilva)
Why? It's a national referendum. He has one vote like the rest of the country.

It also means you have credibility to stay on whatever the result.
Because we all know he does have a preference as he has said countless times prior to becoming the leader of the opposition but now hides behind spurious pretences that he's neutral on the subject, he does this for one reason only which is to garner votes from people on both sides of the argument.
I am saying that outside of a highly politicised, momentum bubble, most people will see that as weak and it will cost Labour a significant amount of votes.
But carry on arguing it's fine in this echo chamber if you wish.
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DSilva
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Because we all know he does have a preference as he has said countless times prior to becoming the leader of the opposition but now hides behind spurious pretences that he's neutral on the subject, he does this for one reason only which is to garner votes from people on both sides of the argument.
I am saying that outside of a highly politicised, momentum bubble, most people will see that as weak and it will cost Labour a significant amount of votes.
But carry on arguing it's fine in this echo chamber if you wish.
Of course he's trying to garner votes from both sides. Why wouldn't he?

If he backed remain or leave, then you'd probably criticise him for that too. He can't win no matter what he does.

Look, you're on here too and are in just as much of an echo chamber as anyone else.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by DSilva)
Of course he's trying to garner votes from both sides. Why wouldn't he?

If he backed remain or leave, then you'd probably criticise him for that too. He can't win no matter what he does.

Look, you're on here too and are in just as much of an echo chamber as anyone else.
I know he's trying to do that, as it happens I would be more likely to vote for him if he stuck to his much vaunted principles and came out fully for leave, but being "neutral" on this matter is not an option, it means leavers like myself will not vote for Labour because there's a chance the referendum result will never be enacted and many remainers thinking they cannot vote for labour because there's more chance of the referendum being reversed by voting elsewhere.
It also brings into question just how much effort will go into these future negotiations and how likely the EU would be to give us a better deal when there is likely to be an option of us not leaving if the public don't like said deal, it's a **** negotiating stance to take up.
And also yes I know I'm using this echo chamber although there are not that many on here that hold my views about this particular matter, but my point is about the wider public most of whom are not as into the intricacies of day to day politics.
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barnetlad
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He could have said he would prefer Remain to Mr Johnson’s deal and why.
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bubblecat
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(Original post by ColinDent)
I know he's trying to do that, as it happens I would be more likely to vote for him if he stuck to his much vaunted principles and came out fully for leave, but being "neutral" on this matter is not an option, it means leavers like myself will not vote for Labour because there's a chance the referendum result will never be enacted and many remainers thinking they cannot vote for labour because there's more chance of the referendum being reversed by voting elsewhere.
It also brings into question just how much effort will go into these future negotiations and how likely the EU would be to give us a better deal when there is likely to be an option of us not leaving if the public don't like said deal, it's a **** negotiating stance to take up.
And also yes I know I'm using this echo chamber although there are not that many on here that hold my views about this particular matter, but my point is about the wider public most of whom are not as into the intricacies of day to day politics.
if Labour win the election they will hold another referendum on Brexit. Corbyn remaining neutral will allow him to carry out the decision of the referendum regardless of the result. the only reason leavers will feel they cannot vote Labour is the same reason they dont want another referendum - they’re scared people have changed their minds and wont vote leave again. but according to leavers, the majority of the uk do want to leave, so what’s the harm in voting Labour and having another vote?

Corbyn will do whatever the people vote for in a second referendum and I believe that is the fairest stance a politician can take. If you’re scared to vote for ‘fair’ than that’s on you.
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DSilva
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(Original post by ColinDent)
I know he's trying to do that, as it happens I would be more likely to vote for him if he stuck to his much vaunted principles and came out fully for leave, but being "neutral" on this matter is not an option, it means leavers like myself will not vote for Labour because there's a chance the referendum result will never be enacted and many remainers thinking they cannot vote for labour because there's more chance of the referendum being reversed by voting elsewhere.
It also brings into question just how much effort will go into these future negotiations and how likely the EU would be to give us a better deal when there is likely to be an option of us not leaving if the public don't like said deal, it's a **** negotiating stance to take up.
And also yes I know I'm using this echo chamber although there are not that many on here that hold my views about this particular matter, but my point is about the wider public most of whom are not as into the intricacies of day to day politics.
If he came out for leave he'd lose the remainers' support. He's offering a second referendum.

We all exist within our own echo chambers. We naturally associate and interact people who share common interests and beliefs with us. That's true whether you are leave, remain, Tory or Labour.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by bubblecat)
if Labour win the election they will hold another referendum on Brexit. Corbyn remaining neutral will allow him to carry out the decision of the referendum regardless of the result. the only reason leavers will feel they cannot vote Labour is the same reason they dont want another referendum - they’re scared people have changed their minds and wont vote leave again. but according to leavers, the majority of the uk do want to leave, so what’s the harm in voting Labour and having another vote?

Corbyn will do whatever the people vote for in a second referendum and I believe that is the fairest stance a politician can take. If you’re scared to vote for ‘fair’ than that’s on you.
A "fair decision" between a half arsed deal that will mean staying in the customs union and single market or remaining, in other words staying in the EU or staying in the EU.
Not buying it.
I have lost what little respect I had for Mr Corbyn because of his refusal to back up what he has always stood for with regards brexit, I'm not particularly bothered about what some of you more momentumy types on here think as most of you seem out of touch with reality, the general public want him and labour to have a defined stance on wether or not they would argue to back their negotiated deal or to remain, if you cannot see the problem in that then that is on you.
Either way we will know exactly what the public think of it in a little under 3 weeks.
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bubblecat
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(Original post by ColinDent)
A "fair decision" between a half arsed deal that will mean staying in the customs union and single market or remaining, in other words staying in the EU or staying in the EU.
Not buying it.
I have lost what little respect I had for Mr Corbyn because of his refusal to back up what he has always stood for with regards brexit, I'm not particularly bothered about what some of you more momentumy types on here think as most of you seem out of touch with reality, the general public want him and labour to have a defined stance on wether or not they would argue to back their negotiated deal or to remain, if you cannot see the problem in that then that is on you.
Either way we will know exactly what the public think of it in a little under 3 weeks.
what you just said is wrong. if by “the general public want him and labour to have a defined stance...” you mean the tories, then sure. i am part of the general public, i agree with what he has said. labour voters have also agreed with what he’s said. so you’re very wrong on that front. i also don’t think Corbyn is particularly fussed whether you respect him or not.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by bubblecat)
what you just said is wrong. if by “the general public want him and labour to have a defined stance...” you mean the tories, then sure. i am part of the general public, i agree with what he has said. labour voters have also agreed with what he’s said. so you’re very wrong on that front. i also don’t think Corbyn is particularly fussed whether you respect him or not.
Well we obviously mix with different people, by general public I mean working class people like myself who have become tired of labour avoiding any real answer as to whether they wish to stay in the EU or leave it as per the referendum, I know a great many of us and I do not know a single person that intends to vote Labour, even those of us that are Labour voters.
Like I say let's see for certain which of us is correct on the 12th, but I have a feeling that you may end up disappointed.
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DSilva
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(Original post by ColinDent)
A "fair decision" between a half arsed deal that will mean staying in the customs union and single market or remaining, in other words staying in the EU or staying in the EU.
Not buying it.
I have lost what little respect I had for Mr Corbyn because of his refusal to back up what he has always stood for with regards brexit, I'm not particularly bothered about what some of you more momentumy types on here think as most of you seem out of touch with reality, the general public want him and labour to have a defined stance on wether or not they would argue to back their negotiated deal or to remain, if you cannot see the problem in that then that is on you.
Either way we will know exactly what the public think of it in a little under 3 weeks.

How do you know if anyone here is in momentum? And what makes you the voice of 'what ordinary people think'? You're just expressing your own view like anyone else is.

You're in just as much of an echo chamber as anyone else.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by DSilva)
How do you know if anyone here is in momentum? And what makes you the voice of 'what ordinary people think'? You're just expressing your own view like anyone else is.

You're in just as much of an echo chamber as anyone else.
We will see on the 12th 😉
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bubblecat
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Well we obviously mix with different people, by general public I mean working class people like myself who have become tired of labour avoiding any real answer as to whether they wish to stay in the EU or leave it as per the referendum, I know a great many of us and I do not know a single person that intends to vote Labour, even those of us that are Labour voters.
Like I say let's see for certain which of us is correct on the 12th, but I have a feeling that you may end up disappointed.
well if you’re working class i sure hope you aren’t voting tory!

i’m also working class, you seem to have a complex where whatever you think goes for everyone thats like you.

to me, it seems like you’ve absorbed all the tory/bbc propaganda against Corbyn and the labour party. a pity.

i know i’m going to be disappointed. Boris Johnson is absolutely awful but people will still vote tory. sadly, the majority of the UK seem to be thick as bricks.
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DSilva
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(Original post by ColinDent)
We will see on the 12th 😉
We will do. You may well be right.

But there really is no position they can take on Brexit that people won't be up in arms about.

Maybe to you Brexit is the most important thing, but to me issues like healthcard, education and housing are far more important.

But please, stop with the whole 'ordinary people think x' malarkey. As if people who vote Labour aren't 'ordinary people'. More than anything, it's patronising to those you claim to be the voice of.
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