So Mr Corbyn is neutral. Watch

fallen_acorns
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#41
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#41
(Original post by QE2)
Ah, the Hitler and Mussolini argument. Kinda appropriate really.
Unless you want to explain why you don't agree that strong leadership unites people, your post has no meaning..

For every bad leader that you want to list, I could mirror it with multiple great leaders from the 20th and 21st century who have been great unifying figures for their countries and are admired for all the good they did. Just throwing in Hitlers name means nothing here.
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QE2
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#42
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Unless you want to explain why you don't agree that strong leadership unites people, your post has no meaning..

For every bad leader that you want to list, I could mirror it with multiple great leaders from the 20th and 21st century who have been great unifying figures for their countries and are admired for all the good they did. Just throwing in Hitlers name means nothing here.
"Strong leadership unites people" is a meaningless platitude. If that "strong leader" is behind something divisive (like forcing through a No deal/Bad Deal Brexit), then that strong leadership actually divides because they are not "leading" the country, they are only leading their existing supporters and marginalises the rest.
A leader who genuinely unites people is a flexible leader who is wiling to compromise, not a podium-thumping demagogue who calls anyone who disagrees "enemy of the people", "traitors" and the suchlike. "Strong" doesn't mean inflexible, intolerant, unheeding, etc. "Strong" means putting the nation as a whole above personal gain of vested interests.
Last edited by QE2; 3 weeks ago
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fallen_acorns
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#43
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#43
(Original post by QE2)
"Strong leadership unites people" is a meaningless platitude. If that "strong leader" is behind something divisive (like forcing through a No deal/Bad Deal Brexit), then that strong leadership actually divides because they are not "leading" the country, they are only leading their existing supporters and marginalises the rest.
A leader who genuinely unites people is a flexible leader who is wiling to compromise, not a podium-thumping demagogue who calls anyone who disagrees "enemy of the people", "traitors" and the suchlike. "Strong" doesn't mean inflexible, intolerant, unheeding, etc. "Strong" means putting the nation as a whole above personal gain of vested interests.
I agree entirely, that strong leadership often involves finding a compromise. But 'no position' is not the same as a compromise. Labours brexit-deal plan of staying in the customs union, is a compromise. Saying you'd hold a referendum and not take part or campaign, and just let others decide, isn't.. its just passing the buck to the another authority.

You can also be flexible.. and you should be, but agian to be flexible in your possition, you actually need to have and maintain a possition in the first place. Its not possible to be flexible with a possiton, when you don't know what your possition is yet, and are reliant on other dictating it to you.

Strong leadership is not just a meaningless platitude, its evident across all our society, from families to schools to goverment, groups of people flourish best under strong leadership. What you are doing is conflating strong leadership with facistic/authoritarian leadership, which isn't something I did, its an inference that you've brought to this.

I want corbyn to show leadership, I don't want him to emulate boris or farage, but show actual leadership.. take a possition, Ideally a compromise, and unite people around it. You don't unite people by letting them decide, you just cause more arguements and divison - as any leader or person who has been in the possition of leadership knows full well. Its very very rare when you get circumstances where dirrect democracy without any guidance from a leader is the best option.
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RogerOxon
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#44
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(Original post by QE2)
So just like Corbyn then. Or are you claiming that he has always hidden is personal position on the EU?
Has Corbyn expressed a preference?
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RogerOxon
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#45
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(Original post by bubblecat)
Politicians are suppose to serve this country, and by remaining neutral i think Corbyn is going to do just that.
Politicians are meant to do their research, to be better informed than most of the general public. If he had, I doubt that he could remain neutral. As it is, I;m simply not convinced that he understands the issues.
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QE2
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#46
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
Has Corbyn expressed a preference?
He has always been publicly against the EU as an institution. I am not aware of any statement to the contrary.
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adam271
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#47
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The neutral stance is quite right I feel.

Look at Mrs May. She was a remainer trying to deliver Brexit. She had no trust from Brexiters because of this.

Let's say Corbyn campaigns to remain and brexit wins again. We end up in the same position.

He would of done well to articulate this comparison during the debate.

The thing Is though he is trying to build consensus and reunite the country to what it was before brexit. It's a difficult task because people are so divided over brexit.

Look at the Lib Dems for instance capitalising on the division of the country when only a few months ago they were happy with a peoples referendum. Same on the other end with labour and brexit party.
If the Lib Dems joined with labour this election would be a whitewash but as usual they put party before country.
Last edited by adam271; 3 weeks ago
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Napp
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#48
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Stupid man. Although at least this'll help the lib dems
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Burton Bridge
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#49
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I

(Original post by Napp)
Stupid man. Although at least this'll help the lib dems
I don't think so
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Napp
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I


I don't think so
Hope springs eternal for me here, so long as that prize ass Johnson doesnt get a majority though
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Burton Bridge
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#51
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Seriously,do any of you buy that?
Sorry nearly forgot the link.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0913e6f6c22d8
If I'm honest, I've always said this is the stance Cameron should of taken. If he fired the gun he should if had a plan a and a plan b, and his majority government should of agreed both plans before a referendum was ever thought of.

Do I buy it, no not for a moment. There are two schools of thought, one is it's too unpalatable for Corbyn to give up on brexit he cannot bring himself too, despite his party pushing for it. Or 2 he needs to con labour leave voters into thinking brexit is not done for under a labour government, even though it is in reality.

I'm struggling more and more with this, I'm finding myself pulling more and more towards the my natural party lines as time goes on. Democracy is more important than my party and socialism but in my constituency you vote labour or Tory or waste it. The tories are not coating themselves in glory in the campaign at the moment.
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ColinDent
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
If I'm honest, I've always said this is the stance Cameron should of taken. If he fired the gun he should if had a plan a and a plan b, and his majority government should of agreed both plans before a referendum was ever thought of.

Do I buy it, no not for a moment. There are two schools of thought, one is it's too unpalatable for Corbyn to give up on brexit he cannot bring himself too, despite his party pushing for it. Or 2 he needs to con labour leave voters into thinking brexit is not done for under a labour government, even though it is in reality.

I'm struggling more and more with this, I'm finding myself pulling more and more towards the my natural party lines as time goes on. Democracy is more important than my party and socialism but in my constituency you vote labour or Tory or waste it. The tories are not coating themselves in glory in the campaign at the moment.
All fair points but what I am trying to express is that the electorate do not and will never buy this kind of fence sitting.
And to back up my point

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...inium-observer

Now this may be an outlier but even if it is it certainly shows that Labour are not closing the gap.
Last edited by ColinDent; 2 weeks ago
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