Tactical Voting Is A Fools Game. Watch

SFsucks
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Don't be played like a fool by political parties this December. Tactical voting is not cleaver and stops any real change from happening.
Use you head for 20 minutes and really think about it.
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Retired_Messiah
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what
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mgi
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(Original post by SFsucks)
Don't be played like a fool by political parties this December. Tactical voting is not cleaver and stops any real change from happening.
Use you head for 20 minutes and really think about it.
yes agreed. But the right wing Murdoch press is teaching rubbish to us to keep Boris in number 10!
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fallen_acorns
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tactical voting is a short-term game, that ****s you in the long-term.

If the only thing you think is important is who wins the next election - then yes, vote tactically.. its the bset thing you can do to get who you want in power.

But if you want the long-term health of our democracy, and you want to see new parties able to emerge, make changes and represent people.. then don't because tactical voting is the biggest barrier to new parties growth (inside a fptp system).

For example, if everyone who wanted to vote green in this election actually did.. sure The torries might win this time, but the green numbers increase all over the country, and in the next election they will have far more momentum and a far bigger base. Repeat and eventually if the public wills it, they will be in a possition to actually contend in large parts of the country. But if a big number of the green voters each time think 'well, I want to vote green, but in my area I should vote Labour because the greens have no chance' you will slow the development and growth of the greens down by a massive amount, effectivly making it all but impossible for them to grow into a big party even if they are representing a decent chunk of the public.

Its why the only new parties we have seen prove succesful in decades are single issue parties(SNP UKIP), and the only ones that have actually managed to turn that success into MPs are both single issue and concentrated into a single area (SNP).

So for anyone I would say to play the long game. Society and politics is about more than just the next few years.. vote for who you really want to vote for, and in the end we will have a healthier poltiical system. Tactically vote, and you just accept that your giving Labour and the Torries the reins of power for ever to alternate between themselves regardless of what the public wants.
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Trumbles
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(Original post by SFsucks)
Don't be played like a fool by political parties this December. Tactical voting is not cleaver and stops any real change from happening.
Use you head for 20 minutes and really think about it.
*clever

Um, OK I've spent over 20 minutes thinking about it. I'm afraid you're going to have to help me here.
What exactly is your argument?
(Original post by mgi)
yes agreed. But the right wing Murdoch press is teaching rubbish to us to keep Boris in number 10!
It's very much not the Murdoch press doing most of the talking up of tactical voting – or the right wing press in general.
Where they are at all it will be to advise hardline Brexiters to vote Tory (rather than the Brexit party) where they're targeting Labour. But that's not what most of the tactical voting guides are about.
____________________________
Register to vote:
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ByEeek
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(Original post by SFsucks)
Don't be played like a fool by political parties this December. Tactical voting is not cleaver and stops any real change from happening.
Use you head for 20 minutes and really think about it.
How so? In a FPP system you vote is of minimal value. If you live in a safe seat and don't like the incumbent your vote is worthless. If you are fortunate to live in a swung seat, chances are you only have two choices, otherwise your vote is worthless. If you want your vote to count, voting to the least offensive candidate with a chance is the best you can hope for.
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tubphonecase
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This is absolutely not true while in a first past the post system.
For example if you live in a constituency like Kensington (a very unsafe labour seat atm - defeated conservatives by 20 votes in 2017) the December election could go either way - conservative or labour.
Let's say that you support the green party, are pro-remain and, hence, do not like the tories.
If, in Kensington, you voted for green because you disagreed with tactical voting, you would only be helping the tories get into power. If you'd voted tactically, and voted labour, the tories would be less likely to get into power as labour would have more votes against them.

As far as I'm aware that's why tactical voting is important for FPTP.
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Napp
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What a load of crap.
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fallen_acorns
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people defend tactical voting by saying its the only option in a FPTP system..

people don't realise though that the only way to get rid of the FPTP system is to not vote tactically!

Short term thinking.
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_gcx
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
people defend tactical voting by saying its the only option in a FPTP system..

people don't realise though that the only way to get rid of the FPTP system is to not vote tactically!

Short term thinking.
Quite hard to escape FPTP though.

No major (I'd determine this by their representation in parliament, since the percentage of the population in support is irrelevant in FPTP) party will support it since they'll be signing away their power.

No idea how this can be resolved, you'd have thought the UKIP stuff a few elections ago and the bodge job of a referendum would prompt some fundamental change. But no, apparently not.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by _gcx)
Quite hard to escape FPTP though.

No major (I'd determine this by their representation in parliament, since the percentage of the population in support is irrelevant in FPTP) party will support it since they'll be signing away their power.

No idea how this can be resolved, you'd have thought the UKIP stuff a few elections ago and the bodge job of a referendum would prompt some fundamental change. But no, apparently not.
It is very hard, but all you can guarentee is that if you vote for the major parties it will never happen, for precisely the correct reasons you mention, turkeys don't vote for christmas.

The only way I can ever see us getting out of FPTP is if we have enough small parties holding seats that they can force the major parties into coalitions and force through referendums on voting reform. Exactly what the Lib dems did in 2010.

If we had enough lib dem votes, green votes, UKIP/Brexit votes (all parties who want electoral reform), then they would have the chance to force a referendum or get the issue on the table. But that won't happen as long as we all vote tactically.
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tazarooni89
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I don’t like the idea of tactical voting, but our election system is just set up in such a way that it becomes a necessity. We had a referendum on electoral reform a few years ago, and if only people had voted for it, we wouldn’t have this problem.

For example, I’m personally quite happy for anyone to win this election as long as it’s not the Conservative or Brexit party. That pretty much forces me to vote Labour even if I think Lib Dem or whoever has better policies.
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tazarooni89
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
It is very hard, but all you can guarentee is that if you vote for the major parties it will never happen, for precisely the correct reasons you mention, turkeys don't vote for christmas.

The only way I can ever see us getting out of FPTP is if we have enough small parties holding seats that they can force the major parties into coalitions and force through referendums on voting reform. Exactly what the Lib dems did in 2010.

If we had enough lib dem votes, green votes, UKIP/Brexit votes (all parties who want electoral reform), then they would have the chance to force a referendum or get the issue on the table. But that won't happen as long as we all vote tactically.
But even if we got a referendum on electoral reform, what makes you think that the country would vote for it? We had one a few years ago already and it was overwhelmingly rejected.

At the end of the day, most people are still either Conservative or Labour voters, and have no incentive to make life easier for the smaller parties.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
But even if we got a referendum on electoral reform, what makes you think that the country would vote for it? We had one a few years ago already and it was overwhelmingly rejected.

At the end of the day, most people are still either Conservative or Labour voters, and have no incentive to make life easier for the smaller parties.
I think we would definitely see a much closer result if they put PR to the public rather than AV. AV was a tactical decision made by the conservatives to win that referendum, because they knew it wasn't the first choice for even the people who want electoral reform. They gave the public a choice between what we have now, or something that even those who want electoral reform didn't really want. So you ended up with a lot of people who wanted reform voting for FPTP because they didn't want AV, and would rather stick with what we have until they were given another chance to vote for what they really wanted.

Obviously in all likelyhood people would still vote for PR, because both the torries and labour would campaign for it..

But for me, the mood is shifting. Yes, in elections people revert back to tactical voting, but outside of elections and the pressure of making the decision, the country is less labour/tory than ever.. when they aren't being forced to fit into FPTP we are more varried in our poltics than at any time in my memory at least. Certainly we are more split and fractured than in 2010 when the last refernedum was being proposed by the lib dems. The green party are bigger, the libs are getting back, SNP are much bigger, Brexit/UKIP are bigger, and a record number of people voted indipendantly in this years local elections. Not to mention this years EU elections were the worst ever for the main two parties.

All of leads me to believe that we are getting to a point slowly where people could actually back electoral reform, if they are given the choice. I'm not sure if we are there, or we are still 10 years away, but that point is coming. The only way to get the chance to make that point heard though, is to not vote tactically.. let the small parties see their vote-share increase even if they don't get seats, and watch the two main parties feel the pressure.

Afterall if you want to see what voting for what you believe in can do - look at UKIP. They only ever had 1 MP at most, but the pressure that they put on the goverment, despite not ever doing well in elections, forced the goverment to react. Imagine how much of a impact it could be if every voter who wanted to vote green actual did? rather than most of them switching back to labour? how much pressure would that put on.. etc.
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paul514
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(Original post by SFsucks)
Don't be played like a fool by political parties this December. Tactical voting is not cleaver and stops any real change from happening.
Use you head for 20 minutes and really think about it.
Tactical voting is a short term solution to vote for or against something.

It is inevitable when you have an issue like brexit blocked by parliament.
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