QE2
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#61
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#61
(Original post by paul514)
The exact one I said
"Immigrants have added to demand the cause of a lack of funding is a desire to spend what we earn."?
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paul514
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#62
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(Original post by QE2)
"Immigrants have added to demand the cause of a lack of funding is a desire to spend what we earn."?
Its not a difficult statement to understand.

Immigration of people to the country adds demand for services.

A lack of funding of [insert service here] is a desire to spend what we earn rather than borrowing even more, this is why deficit reduction has been all important for the coalition and may governments.
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paul514
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#63
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(Original post by QE2)
So the repost doesn't say it, some bloke on the telly did. Fair enough.


They aren't promising much and their plans won't raise the required revenue. How is that different to what you were accusing Labour of?


Nothing to do with Brexit. It is simply saying that the Tories tax plans won't raise enough revenue to pay for the promised increases in public spending.
Some bloke = Paul Johnson of the IFS the guy who is always on TV.

They aren't promising much and therefore the revenue doesn't need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb, what is it 2.9 billion of extra spending?

Again I saw Paul Johnson say it himself about the triple tax lock issue being related to post brexit possible issues with the economy.

"But if the economy does worse in the next few years, perhaps if Brexit goes wrong, perhaps there's another recession then I think the danger is you have to turn the taps off again."
Last edited by paul514; 2 weeks ago
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QE2
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#64
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(Original post by paul514)
Its not a difficult statement to understand.
Immigration of people to the country adds demand for services.
So the shortage of doctors is because of immigrants clogging up the hospitals and GP's surgeries? I thought that spurious claim had been throughly debunked.
Immigrants make a net contribution to the NHS. Without them, waiting lists would be even longer.

A lack of funding of [insert service here] is a desire to spend what we earn rather than borrowing even more, this is why deficit reduction has been all important for the coalition and may governments.
So again, nothing to do with immigrants.
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paul514
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#65
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(Original post by QE2)
So the shortage of doctors is because of immigrants clogging up the hospitals and GP's surgeries? I thought that spurious claim had been throughly debunked.
Immigrants make a net contribution to the NHS. Without them, waiting lists would be even longer.


So again, nothing to do with immigrants.
I didn't say it was, I am already bored with you pretending I have said something else like I have seen other saying you are doing the same with their posts on other politics threads.

Convo over.
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QE2
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#66
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(Original post by paul514)
I didn't say it was, I am already bored with you pretending I have said something else like I have seen other saying you are doing the same with their posts on other politics threads.

Convo over.
So you accept that the problems facing the NHS have nothing to do with immigrants, and the problems would be worse without them.

The trouble you (and others) sometimes have is that what you say has certain meaning. If it is not what you meant, then you should be more careful with your choice of words and contraction of sentences. You replied to someone asking if you thought that immigrants were a contributory factor in the NHS's problems by saying that they are. If you didn't think they were, saying they were is going to give people the wrong impression. I am merely making sure that you are aware of the reality of the issue.
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SteveyStack
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#67
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(Original post by QE2)
So you accept that the problems facing the NHS have nothing to do with immigrants, and the problems would be worse without them.

The trouble you (and others) sometimes have is that what you say has certain meaning. If it is not what you meant, then you should be more careful with your choice of words and contraction of sentences. You replied to someone asking if you thought that immigrants were a contributory factor in the NHS's problems by saying that they are. If you didn't think they were, saying they were is going to give people the wrong impression. I am merely making sure that you are aware of the reality of the issue.
For once I agree with you on immigration that immigration is good. I would prefer it was based on skill but some immigration is good, especially when we can’t be bothered to train enough doctors
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paul514
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#68
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(Original post by QE2)
So you accept that the problems facing the NHS have nothing to do with immigrants, and the problems would be worse without them.

The trouble you (and others) sometimes have is that what you say has certain meaning. If it is not what you meant, then you should be more careful with your choice of words and contraction of sentences. You replied to someone asking if you thought that immigrants were a contributory factor in the NHS's problems by saying that they are. If you didn't think they were, saying they were is going to give people the wrong impression. I am merely making sure that you are aware of the reality of the issue.
I don’t accept anything you have said to me as I didn’t say it in the first place my views on what you are talking about are unknown in this thread as I haven’t commented on them 😂
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robsole
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#69
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#69
Ok some hard truths as the BMA have confirmed enough people go to medical school in this country but the problem is most of the grads dont stay in the UK after med school they go to USA/Oz/Canada etc as pay and conditions are better. A shocking stat is that more than 50% of UK grads dont pursue specialist training here and go overseas. Fix that issue first.

Also why is there this myth that somehow chucking money at public services makes things better? That is tripe. Public services are billion pound behemoths where any extra $$ invested is lost through tiers of management, inefficiency and general waste in the system. Frankly I dont have any issue with not throwing money at them as you get zero return for them. Labour tried this strategy and nothing improved.

The culture of worklessness needs to be tackled in this country asap. Labour strategy of unlimited welfare will only make this worse. Frankly if you are better off not working who is going to bother? The only people who are going to benefit from Corbyns money tree he is going to dish out to this group of people will be Sky and the local off licence! Sad but true.
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QE2
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#70
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(Original post by paul514)
Some bloke = Paul Johnson of the IFS the guy who is always on TV.
Well, he should know better than to misquote his own organisations report, shouldn't he?

They aren't promising much and therefore the revenue doesn't need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb, what is it 2.9 billion of extra spending?
So they can't even justify what little they are going to spend, which presumably you acknowledge is not enough to remedy the problems our national institutions are facing after being screwed by the Tories for 9 years.

Again I saw Paul Johnson say it himself about the triple tax lock issue being related to post brexit possible issues with the economy.
"But if the economy does worse in the next few years, perhaps if Brexit goes wrong, perhaps there's another recession then I think the danger is you have to turn the taps off again."
lol! "Perhaps" indeed!
Regardless of whether Brexit happens or not (if it happens, it will be bad for the economy, that is the consensus amongst business leaders and economists), if the Tories aren't raising enough revenue to pay for their proposed spending (which the IFS says they aren't), then they aren't. Brexit not being a catastrophe won't change that.
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mpaprika
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#71
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#71
if the job spot wasn't open the immigrant wouldn't ''steal'' it
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QE2
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#72
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(Original post by SteveyStack)
For once I agree with you on immigration that immigration is good. I would prefer it was based on skill but some immigration is good, especially when we can’t be bothered to train enough doctors
There is no evidence to support the claim that we are suffering from "bad immigration" in any way.

We would be training enough doctors (currently 6000 a year) if all those doctors stayed in the NHS and wanted to do the less popular stuff like GP, psychiatry and paediatrics. Unfortunately, the current conditions mean that doctors are leaving the country, going private, retiring early, etc.
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QE2
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#73
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(Original post by paul514)
I don’t accept anything you have said to me as I didn’t say it in the first place my views on what you are talking about are unknown in this thread as I haven’t commented on them 😂
It is irrelevant whether I say it or not. It is a fact that you either accept or you don't.
So you don't accept that he problems facing the NHS have nothing to do with immigrants, and the problems would be worse without them.
So why have you been claiming otherwise?
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broccoli2020
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#74
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#74
Vote labour
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SteveyStack
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#75
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#75
(Original post by QE2)
There is no evidence to support the claim that we are suffering from "bad immigration" in any way.

We would be training enough doctors (currently 6000 a year) if all those doctors stayed in the NHS and wanted to do the less popular stuff like GP, psychiatry and paediatrics. Unfortunately, the current conditions mean that doctors are leaving the country, going private, retiring early, etc.
Just because I favour a skill based approach as it is 100% fair for a start doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Also they go private because of the money (it would completely blow the country’s finances up to do this).

Also just a bit of common sense suggests there will be some bad immigration. Immigrants tend to be of working age in this country so they often benefit us now but do not always do so long term.
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QE2
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(Original post by SteveyStack)
Just because I favour a skill based approach as it is 100% fair for a start doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
"Can't be bothered to train enough doctors" is wrong. "Can't be bothered to provide conditions that encourage qualified doctors to stay in the NHS" is more accurate.

Also they go private because of the money
Most newly qualified doctors leaving the NHS go to work in other countries. The private issue tends to be more of a problem with senior staff reducing their NHS hours.

it would completely blow the country’s finances up to do this).
Don't understand what you means by this.

Also just a bit of common sense suggests there will be some bad immigration. Immigrants tend to be of working age in this country so they often benefit us now but do not always do so long term.
Of course, but the important point is that there is a net benefit from immigration. They few "bad" ones are far outweighed by the majority "good" ones.
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robsole
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#77
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@QE2 - absolutely spot around 75% of UK medical graduates do enter specialist training in the UK they either quit and find a higher paying career or go overseas to work.

An example a Consultant here get 80K a year in the US they get 280K a year, yes more than 3x a year so which muppett is going to stay in this country? How will Corbyns plan fix that? Opening more medical schools is a waste of time all that happens is you help fix the shortages in other countries! Retain what you have first Jezza.

Essentially what Jezza wants to do is to take money away from those who work 40hrs a week and give it to those who work zero hours a work! How is that fair? Why not introduce a scroungers tax to add to the plethora of other taxes he wants to create or rise?

Socialism is essentially taking money away from those that earn it and giving it to those that cant be bothered i.e it never works, encourages laziness and discourages work and enterprise. How on earth does he think that is a good thing?
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PQ
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#78
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#78
(Original post by robsole)
@QE2 - absolutely spot around 75% of UK medical graduates do enter specialist training in the UK they either quit and find a higher paying career or go overseas to work.

An example a Consultant here get 80K a year in the US they get 280K a year, yes more than 3x a year so which muppett is going to stay in this country? How will Corbyns plan fix that? Opening more medical schools is a waste of time all that happens is you help fix the shortages in other countries! Retain what you have first Jezza.

Essentially what Jezza wants to do is to take money away from those who work 40hrs a week and give it to those who work zero hours a work! How is that fair? Why not introduce a scroungers tax to add to the plethora of other taxes he wants to create or rise?

Socialism is essentially taking money away from those that earn it and giving it to those that cant be bothered i.e it never works, encourages laziness and discourages work and enterprise. How on earth does he think that is a good thing?
Have you read the manifesto yet? There’s an easy read version if that would help.
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robsole
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#79
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#79
(Original post by PQ)
Have you read the manifesto yet? There’s an easy read version if that would help.
Dont care all of them are tripe look at what has actually happened vs what is predicted to - big difference
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t_omiw_a
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#80
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I’m tired of brexit
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