Neither of the main two parties reflect my views - who should I vote for? Watch

RJDG14
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I live in one of these areas where it's a close battle between Labour and the Tories, and personally I'm not at all keen on either of their manifestos. I support primarily the Liberal Democrat manifesto, not just on Brexit but on most domestic issues too. The Labour manifesto seems too economically socialist and I don't want Britain to be taken back to the failing economy of the 1970s, but yet the Tories are ardent supporters of Brexit, and are too authoritarian on law and order and on social issues for me to even consider voting for them. While I agree with them from a fiscal point of view more than Labour at the moment, they are too right wing socially for me to want to vote for them. Should I vote tactically for Labour, which I see as the lesser of two evils, or should I effectively spoil my vote by voting Lib-Dem?

These are some of the things I believe:
*There should be no major rise in either income taxes, and VAT should be reduced
*I am strongly in favour of free trade and strongly against protectionism, which only limits consumer choice
*The British education system needs radical reform, and should be remodelled to be closer to that of Canada or Finland instead of Singapore
*I would actually support a free trade agreement with the United States, provided that American beef (and processed foods too) is clearly labelled as American
*I'm broadly opposed to Brexit, and instead feel that the EU should have much of its beuracratic legislation dropped, while retaining free trade, freedom of movement and the European Court of Human Rights
*Our NHS somehow needs reforming, because the quality of care it provides is poorer than the systems in the majority of other first world nations
*I am strongly against regulating the internet against "harmful content" and do not think the government should act on whatever moral panic the right wing press launch a cruscade against
*I believe that tuition fees should be reduced back to £3000 a year like they were prior to 2011, but do not think it would be fiscally possible to abolish them altogether without a massive tax rise
*I would support requiring private schools to lease out exclusive facilities to nearby state schools when those facilities are otherwise not being used, and private schools should be subject to regular VAT

So what should I do in this election?
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Alexsmith8898
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Vote Lib Dem, even if they don’t win the seat your vote will indirectly pressure the government into taking their policies into account more. Furthermore, both main parties are moving further towards to political extremes and a vote for either is harmful in this election.
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richw1982
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(Original post by RJDG14)
These are some of the things I believe:
*There should be no major rise in either income taxes, and VAT should be reduced
*I am strongly in favour of free trade and strongly against protectionism, which only limits consumer choice
*The British education system needs radical reform, and should be remodelled to be closer to that of Canada or Finland instead of Singapore
*I would actually support a free trade agreement with the United States, provided that American beef (and processed foods too) is clearly labelled as American
*I'm broadly opposed to Brexit, and instead feel that the EU should have much of its beuracratic legislation dropped, while retaining free trade, freedom of movement and the European Court of Human Rights
*Our NHS somehow needs reforming, because the quality of care it provides is poorer than the systems in the majority of other first world nations
*I am strongly against regulating the internet against "harmful content" and do not think the government should act on whatever moral panic the right wing press launch a cruscade against
*I believe that tuition fees should be reduced back to £3000 a year like they were prior to 2011, but do not think it would be fiscally possible to abolish them altogether without a massive tax rise
*I would support requiring private schools to lease out exclusive facilities to nearby state schools when those facilities are otherwise not being used, and private schools should be subject to regular VAT

So what should I do in this election?
i don't believe the NHS needs reforming. Rather it needs to be properly staffed and funded. with money not being wasted and certain things should be billed for. so i used to work in a hospital and dealt with people all the time. what i found was that you had some people that were regularly in hospital due to their own negligence they would get drunk and get hurt and end up in the hospital. This was a weekly thing people like this should be billed the cost of their care transport and staff cost to look after them. People need to take responsibility for their actions and safety. i am well aware that some people have problems and cant cope but we have got to stop wrapping everyone in cotton wall and saying its OK your not responsible for this.

Like you i am against brexit and voted to remain. unfortunately we lost and the vote was to leave despite all of the reasons they have come up with on why the vote does not count. To be diplomatic and go with the will of the people we have to leave the EU. But this is impossible all the while MP block every attempt. We are not going to get out with a deal we like so we have to have a deal we can accept and work with.

i agree tuition fees are a joke and i look at my kids and worry they will never be able to afford the education they want
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QE2
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(Original post by RJDG14)
I live in one of these areas where it's a close battle between Labour and the Tories, and personally I'm not at all keen on either of their manifestos. I support primarily the Liberal Democrat manifesto, not just on Brexit but on most domestic issues too. The Labour manifesto seems too economically socialist and I don't want Britain to be taken back to the failing economy of the 1970s, but yet the Tories are ardent supporters of Brexit, and are too authoritarian on law and order and on social issues for me to even consider voting for them. While I agree with them from a fiscal point of view more than Labour at the moment, they are too right wing socially for me to want to vote for them. Should I vote tactically for Labour, which I see as the lesser of two evils, or should I effectively spoil my vote by voting Lib-Dem?

These are some of the things I believe:
*There should be no major rise in either income taxes, and VAT should be reduced
*I am strongly in favour of free trade and strongly against protectionism, which only limits consumer choice
*The British education system needs radical reform, and should be remodelled to be closer to that of Canada or Finland instead of Singapore
*I would actually support a free trade agreement with the United States, provided that American beef (and processed foods too) is clearly labelled as American
*I'm broadly opposed to Brexit, and instead feel that the EU should have much of its beuracratic legislation dropped, while retaining free trade, freedom of movement and the European Court of Human Rights
*Our NHS somehow needs reforming, because the quality of care it provides is poorer than the systems in the majority of other first world nations
*I am strongly against regulating the internet against "harmful content" and do not think the government should act on whatever moral panic the right wing press launch a cruscade against
*I believe that tuition fees should be reduced back to £3000 a year like they were prior to 2011, but do not think it would be fiscally possible to abolish them altogether without a massive tax rise
*I would support requiring private schools to lease out exclusive facilities to nearby state schools when those facilities are otherwise not being used, and private schools should be subject to regular VAT

So what should I do in this election?
So, you think that taxation should be reduced but public spending needs to be increased.
Well, the first thing you need to do is decide which of those two is the most important, because they are mutually exclusive.
But overall, Labour/Lib Dem suits you better, so vote whichever is more likely to keep the Tories out in your constituency.
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QE2
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(Original post by richw1982)
unfortunately we lost and the vote was to leave despite all of the reasons they have come up with on why the vote does not count.
No one is saying that the vote "does not count" (although the Court of Appeal ruled that it shouldn't). The issue is that the vote did not provide any mechanism for leaving, and Leavers cannot agree on what that mechanism should be. There is a majority against any particular mechanism, so the only rational, democratic solution is the Labour proposal. Negotiate a better, more popular deal, get it approved by parliament, and then put that to a binding vote against Remain, with a set timetable. That way there can be no argument one way or the other.

To be diplomatic and go with the will of the people we have to leave the EU.
But the current deal is not "the will of the people", neither is No Deal. Even a generic "Leave" is not "the will of the people". It is merely "the will of the 17 million people who voted for it on a given day". In an electorate of 46 million, 4 years and a raft of revelations and new information later, it cannot be called "the will of the people". That is just a Brexiteer phrase designed to stifle opposition.

But this is impossible all the while MP block every attempt.
MPs job is to represent the best interests of there constituents, not to rubber-stamp populist opinion.

We are not going to get out with a deal we like so we have to have a deal we can accept and work with.
Why? If it is impossible to arrive at a deal that is both popular and not damaging to the nation, why on earth should we have to accept it? That would be like buying an unreliable car that you don't like when you already have a better car, simply because you told the kids you were going to get a new car.
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richw1982
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(Original post by QE2)
No one is saying that the vote "does not count" (although the Court of Appeal ruled that it shouldn't). The issue is that the vote did not provide any mechanism for leaving, and Leavers cannot agree on what that mechanism should be. There is a majority against any particular mechanism, so the only rational, democratic solution is the Labour proposal. Negotiate a better, more popular deal, get it approved by parliament, and then put that to a binding vote against Remain, with a set timetable. That way there can be no argument one way or the other.


But the current deal is not "the will of the people", neither is No Deal. Even a generic "Leave" is not "the will of the people". It is merely "the will of the 17 million people who voted for it on a given day". In an electorate of 46 million, 4 years and a raft of revelations and new information later, it cannot be called "the will of the people". That is just a Brexiteer phrase designed to stifle opposition.


MPs job is to represent the best interests of there constituents, not to rubber-stamp populist opinion.


Why? If it is impossible to arrive at a deal that is both popular and not damaging to the nation, why on earth should we have to accept it? That would be like buying an unreliable car that you don't like when you already have a better car, simply because you told the kids you were going to get a new car.
i get and agree to some point will everything you have said but. If the court of appeal has ruled that the vote does not count then what i have said is valid people are trying to use any loophole to get around the vote and trying to make it void.

yes MP do have to do what is in the best interest of there constituents. but every time we ask for a delay it cost X amount which over time will get worse and something we can not afford realistically.

At the moment we are trying to negotiate a divorce and take into account everyone's opinions and wishes. we maybe able to satisfy some of the things people want but not all.

i do agree that no one actually stated what leave would actually mean or how it would be done. But most people would take it the same way as a divorce you both go your separate ways .
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QE2
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(Original post by richw1982)
i get and agree to some point will everything you have said but. If the court of appeal has ruled that the vote does not count then what i have said is valid people are trying to use any loophole to get around the vote and trying to make it void.
Not so. The CoA statement came during a ruling on election law breaches by the Leave campaign. They said that the breaches were so serious that had it been an election, they would have quashed the result. However, because it was merely an advisory referendum they had no powers to do so. It was a legal issue under the purview of the Electoral Commission, it wasn't a case brought by Reminers to have the result overturned.

Also, what is your objection, in principle, to voiding the result of a fraudulent election?

yes MP do have to do what is in the best interest of there constituents. but every time we ask for a delay it cost X amount which over time will get worse and something we can not afford realistically.
So you think we should simply accept the ill-judged or damaging, and presumably the illegal, if the cost of rectifying it is judged to be too high? And who gets to decide how much is too much?

At the moment we are trying to negotiate a divorce and take into account everyone's opinions and wishes. we maybe able to satisfy some of the things people want but not all.
But one partner doesn't want to get divorced, and the other partner is undecided, but will be better off staying married - so why insist on rushing into the divorce and accepting a bad settlement?

i do agree that no one actually stated what leave would actually mean or how it would be done. But most people would take it the same way as a divorce you both go your separate ways .
But that's not what happens in a divorce. There are negotiations to decide what happens to the house, the division of assets, custody of the children, offers proposed, counter offers made, payments negotiated etc, etc. People don't just "go their separate ways"!

And remember, this couple don't really want a divorce. It is other people who have been trying to arrange it for them.
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