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Original post by bones-mccoy
No need to patronise me, "sweetheart". Prisons should be a deterrent, but unfortunately they're not. That's the harsh reality. There's no reason why prisons can't be serve as a deterent and be able to rehabilitate people at the same time.

Well there was no need to tell me or anyone that my first opinion was "absolutely wrong" because you didn't like my opinion. You can't shoot down any opinion with the response "absolutely wrong". Now I'm beginning to think that the prisons are really meant to deter inmates like it's always been and the rehabilitation service is a once-in-an-only-lifetime secret option for inmate who really need the help and for certain cases. There's the fore-running males, female prisons and young offenders prisons and they all should deter anyone from going to them as it's already seen inmates trying to get along but already breeding the culture to help people think never to go there like it always has been. I pay my respects for anyone having to endure being there. I welcome them into society for getting out, staying away from those place and even telling people not to go there.
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Original post by cadaanshaydaan
I think the question is inherently flawed, prisons shouldn’t exist and ideally have no place in society. They serve no function apart from maintaining systematic inequalities exacerbated by a flawed education system. And there is especially no justification for any of the prison systems maintained in the Western world. They don’t carry out any form of justice, it’s cruelty. Prisoners are denied their right to vote, are expected to live in dehumanising conditions, have very poor access to education etc. It doesn’t offer any deterrent against crime and certainly doesn’t protect the public from harm. The resources, time, personnel and money being wasted on the maintenance of prisons would be better off used to address the social elements that create crime. A rehabilitative system above all else with a goal of the eventual abolition of prisons can be the only answer.


Agreed prison should be like Norwegian one's AFTER the standard of living has improve massively so that "a criminal isn't living better than a homeless man" but we all know that ain't gonna happen
Criminals now seem to find it a privilege to go to prison, because they know they get luxuries. That should not be the case, it should be somewhere that they fear to go - there should be no luxuries, no TV, no nice food, no games. The vast majority of criminals that come out of prison just re offend, so it evidently clear that current rehabilitation methods do not work; this is likely because they aren't in prison for long enough

I am a strong supporter of the US Justice System. Here in England if you murder someone, but you are good in prison - you get let out early. No matter how good you are - you MURDERED someone, I think that deserves no forgiveness and you serve the full sentence you are given. Criminals know that if they are good they can get out earlier and just go and commit the very crime that they went in for.

There should very little socialisation between high level criminals, as that is when they start to organise drugs coming in, and they establish gangs - leading to violence in prisons.
Original post by Anonymous
Criminals now seem to find it a privilege to go to prison, because they know they get luxuries. That should not be the case, it should be somewhere that they fear to go - there should be no luxuries, no TV, no nice food, no games. The vast majority of criminals that come out of prison just re offend, so it evidently clear that current rehabilitation methods do not work; this is likely because they aren't in prison for long enough

I am a strong supporter of the US Justice System. Here in England if you murder someone, but you are good in prison - you get let out early. No matter how good you are - you MURDERED someone, I think that deserves no forgiveness and you serve the full sentence you are given. Criminals know that if they are good they can get out earlier and just go and commit the very crime that they went in for.

There should very little socialisation between high level criminals, as that is when they start to organise drugs coming in, and they establish gangs - leading to violence in prisons.

you have gone F***ing bonkers and also WTH the reason why criminal re-commit in the first place IS because of the lack of rehabilitation also WHEN THE F*** have you seen nice TV, nice food and games in a UK prison... i think your mixing up Norway and the UK mate... the US is holding around 20-30% of ALL murders in the ENTIRE WORLD so clearly they are doing something wrong especially when 40-60% of them re-commit crimes... don't give me your "high population" bull**** because i ain't seeing this level of crime in India, China, Japan etc... violence is not the answer get that sh*t inside your head good day to you sir your so fricken lucky you used the anon feature... also i am so glad you used america as example so i can tell you some "good" reasons why people commit crimes and the problems with their justice system:
1. 40% of Americans are living in poverty (poverty= more likely to live in gang areas and commit crime) and the US and somewhat UK (mainly England) help system is SH*T favouring only the top 1-10% (i would say 1-50% in the UK)
2. the cost of medical bills are extreme high so let's say you have a terminal illness and you need money to pay for your healthcare (you might be so desperate to commit a crime just so you can afford to pay for them)
3. the American justice system is racist (look how many black/ethnic minority people you're seeing in prison for a crime they did not commit. how many times do that happen for a person that "looks white" lemmie guess RARELY)
4. DO NOT SOLVE VIOLENCE WITH MORE VIOLENCE do yourself a favour and deport yourself to the US
5. oh wait crap England and the USA recently found out they were twins not cousins we are both a laughing stock to the world, greedy, self-absorbed etc
Original post by Anonymous
Well there was no need to tell me or anyone that my first opinion was "absolutely wrong" because you didn't like my opinion. You can't shoot down any opinion with the response "absolutely wrong". Now I'm beginning to think that the prisons are really meant to deter inmates like it's always been and the rehabilitation service is a once-in-an-only-lifetime secret option for inmate who really need the help and for certain cases. There's the fore-running males, female prisons and young offenders prisons and they all should deter anyone from going to them as it's already seen inmates trying to get along but already breeding the culture to help people think never to go there like it always has been. I pay my respects for anyone having to endure being there. I welcome them into society for getting out, staying away from those place and even telling people not to go there.


It wasn't really an opinion, though. Your statement was that rehabilitation doesn't work when statistics show that it actually does. Some people go to prison and then get released X years later having regretted what they've done and won't commit another offence. Some people are serial offenders who will go on offend throughout their lives. Those are the people that rehabilitation is for, the people who need that extra support to change their behaviour. The whole idea of rehabilitation is to stop the revolving door aspect of the prison system. If we can't stop the origins of crime then the next best thing is to stop recidivism.
Original post by StriderHort
I really don't want to go to prison, they totally do serve as a deterrent. Not to everyone, but to an awful lot of people, yep, it does.

For you and me, yes, but not everyone sees prisons as the terrible places they really are. Not everyone is capable of making the rational choice not to offend due to consequences. So many of the young men I've met lack the ability to think of the long-term consequences of their actions, only focusing on the here and now.
Original post by 1st superstar
you have gone F***ing bonkers and also WTH the reason why criminal re-commit in the first place IS because of the lack of rehabilitation also WHEN THE F*** have you seen nice TV, nice food and games in a UK prison... i think your mixing up Norway and the UK mate... the US is holding around 20-30% of ALL murders in the ENTIRE WORLD so clearly they are doing something wrong especially when 40-60% of them re-commit crimes... don't give me your "high population" bull**** because i ain't seeing this level of crime in India, China, Japan etc... violence is not the answer get that sh*t inside your head good day to you sir your so fricken lucky you used the anon feature... also i am so glad you used america as example so i can tell you some "good" reasons why people commit crimes and the problems with their justice system:
1. 40% of Americans are living in poverty (poverty= more likely to live in gang areas and commit crime) and the US and somewhat UK (mainly England) help system is SH*T favouring only the top 1-10% (i would say 1-50% in the UK)
2. the cost of medical bills are extreme high so let's say you have a terminal illness and you need money to pay for your healthcare (you might be so desperate to commit a crime just so you can afford to pay for them)
3. the American justice system is racist (look how many black/ethnic minority people you're seeing in prison for a crime they did not commit. how many times do that happen for a person that "looks white" lemmie guess RARELY)
4. DO NOT SOLVE VIOLENCE WITH MORE VIOLENCE do yourself a favour and deport yourself to the US
5. oh wait crap England and the USA recently found out they were twins not cousins we are both a laughing stock to the world, greedy, self-absorbed etc

Inmates in the UK do have TV's and those on enhanced wings do get to play games

(But I do absolutely agree that the US prison system is awful and is not something the UK should ever strive for)
Original post by bones-mccoy
For you and me, yes, but not everyone sees prisons as the terrible places they really are. Not everyone is capable of making the rational choice not to offend due to consequences. So many of the young men I've met lack the ability to think of the long-term consequences of their actions, only focusing on the here and now.

Don't think i'm so different, I've made plenty of 'stupid young man' and 'stupid not as young man' decisions. Prison still deters me on a level that normal consequences simply don't (It's not even the actual prison bit that cares me the most, it's losing my flat and having nothing to come back to).

There are people out there who prison genuinely isn't a deterrent, but I consider them outliers and quite rare. You'll see plenty of empty 'I don't give a fk!" bravado as they're put in the police car, but a totally different matter when they're waiting in the court dungeon cells to be sentenced.
Do you think arming more or all police - would reduce crime, what's everyone's opinion?

I don't think every police offer should be armed, but I think in the future it will unfortunately come to that; I do think that there should be more armed teams around - especially in city centres - the fact that they are there is a huge deterrent.
Original post by StriderHort
I really don't want to go to prison, they totally do serve as a deterrent. Not to everyone, but to an awful lot of people, yep, it does.

I'm not sure what's so difficult for y'all middle class TSR people to get.
Prison does not deter those prone to commit crimes. Prison ain't deterring nobody. If a person wants to commit a crime, they're gonna do it. There is no correlation between crime rates and harsh prison sentences statistically and your anecdotal "well i wouldn't" doesn't count for ****. American cities have massive crime yet prison sentences are way higher than countries like Norway or Iceland which focus on rehabilitation.
Reply 50
Needs to be a deterrent.

Tell someone who burgled an old grannies house and scared them ****less that they should be spoon fed and treated respectfully because prison is too harsh.
Deterrent, punishment and means of public protection only.
Prison for vicious predators, organised crime gangs and dangerous antisocial habitual offenders with no desire to change for the better.

Prison should not be a "university of crime" or "good place to make bad people even worse".
Rehabilitation for comparatively low level offenders who are not habitual criminals or violent/sexual offenders should occur outside of the prison system.
Community service, fines, compensation to victims and guaranteed places at addiction treatment programmes- to prevent minor offenders from entering the prison system's revolving door.
Original post by angelinahx
I'm not sure what's so difficult for y'all middle class TSR people to get.
Prison does not deter those prone to commit crimes. Prison ain't deterring nobody. If a person wants to commit a crime, they're gonna do it. There is no correlation between crime rates and harsh prison sentences statistically and your anecdotal "well i wouldn't" doesn't count for ****. American cities have massive crime yet prison sentences are way higher than countries like Norway or Iceland which focus on rehabilitation.

I'm not middle class, are you? :colonhash:

Frankly I think my anecdotal 'actual' experience trumps your generalized absolutes, unless you're holding something back?
Original post by bones-mccoy
It wasn't really an opinion, though. Your statement was that rehabilitation doesn't work when statistics show that it actually does. Some people go to prison and then get released X years later having regretted what they've done and won't commit another offence. Some people are serial offenders who will go on offend throughout their lives. Those are the people that rehabilitation is for, the people who need that extra support to change their behaviour. The whole idea of rehabilitation is to stop the revolving door aspect of the prison system. If we can't stop the origins of crime then the next best thing is to stop recidivism.



There may not be statistics on how prison is deter anyone but I don't think anyone would sign up to say that they don't want to go to prison and be a statistic. Do you want to do that?. That's like saying everyone that isn't in prison is a statistic, and if it was, it greatly outweighs the stats of offenders who got rehabilitation anyways to the folks who are in prison. Just adds to why the idea of prison to stay away from it, it not to get marked down as a statistic in the first place. Being a statistic seems to be putting a stigma on someone who went to get rehabilitation. I think it would just encourage more crime in the long term.

You're still trying to deny that I deserve to have an opinion when I have this option on this website. Can't I post here? That's what you're saying when you're telling me and everyone else that I shouldn't have an opinion.
Original post by Anonymous
There may not be statistics on how prison is deter anyone but I don't think anyone would sign up to say that they don't want to go to prison and be a statistic. Do you want to do that?. That's like saying everyone that isn't in prison is a statistic, and if it was, it greatly outweighs the stats of offenders who got rehabilitation anyways to the folks who are in prison. Just adds to why the idea of prison to stay away from it, it not to get marked down as a statistic in the first place. Being a statistic seems to be putting a stigma on someone who went to get rehabilitation. I think it would just encourage more crime in the long term.

You're still trying to deny that I deserve to have an opinion when I have this option on this website. Can't I post here? That's what you're saying when you're telling me and everyone else that I shouldn't have an opinion.

Now you're twisting my words. I'm not saying anyone is a statistic, just that statistics show rehabilitation programs can make a difference in terms of re-offending. Never said you couldn't have an opinion, either, but it helps if you have some kind of evidence or fact to back it up rather than just generalising.
Original post by angelinahx
I'm not sure what's so difficult for y'all middle class TSR people to get.
Prison does not deter those prone to commit crimes. Prison ain't deterring nobody. If a person wants to commit a crime, they're gonna do it. There is no correlation between crime rates and harsh prison sentences statistically and your anecdotal "well i wouldn't" doesn't count for ****. American cities have massive crime yet prison sentences are way higher than countries like Norway or Iceland which focus on rehabilitation.

PRSOM
Original post by bones-mccoy
Now you're twisting my words. I'm not saying anyone is a statistic,...


Original post by bones-mccoy
It wasn't really an opinion, though. Your statement

Well you kind of said it here, like I don't deserve an opinion and then you come at me with your insults towards me, followed by your opinion, like I'm trash. I don't see that as a discussion. I'm done here and not because like I've ran out of things to say, it's because you keep saying that I'm point blank wrong like I'm trash, then follow it to make your point. You shouldn't do that. In a way, you're not really putting your point across, so there's nothing to really answer too, because you keep hinting that I'm trash. You can't do that. You can't have someone weed out the direct insults that you throw at anyone the follow it with a debate. You remember, you came after me first like you wanted my attention. Go find someone else to talk down, I'm done here. You can't debate. I've said whatever I have to say and I say it shouldn't be a place for rehab, with my following previous reasons.
Original post by Anonymous
Well you kind of said it here, like I don't deserve an opinion and then you come at me with your insults towards me, followed by your opinion, like I'm trash. I don't see that as a discussion. I'm done here and not because like I've ran out of things to say, it's because you keep saying that I'm point blank wrong like I'm trash, then follow it to make your point. You shouldn't do that. In a way, you're not really putting your point across, so there's nothing to really answer too, because you keep hinting that I'm trash. You can't do that. You can't have someone weed out the direct insults that you throw at anyone the follow it with a debate. You remember, you came after me first like you wanted my attention. Go find someone else to talk down, I'm done here. You can't debate. I've said whatever I have to say and I say it shouldn't be a place for rehab, with my following previous reasons.

Hmm so far she has said some very good arguments most of which are basic facts??
Original post by Anonymous
Well you kind of said it here, like I don't deserve an opinion and then you come at me with your insults towards me, followed by your opinion, like I'm trash. I don't see that as a discussion. I'm done here and not because like I've ran out of things to say, it's because you keep saying that I'm point blank wrong like I'm trash, then follow it to make your point. You shouldn't do that. In a way, you're not really putting your point across, so there's nothing to really answer too, because you keep hinting that I'm trash. You can't do that. You can't have someone weed out the direct insults that you throw at anyone the follow it with a debate. You remember, you came after me first like you wanted my attention. Go find someone else to talk down, I'm done here. You can't debate. I've said whatever I have to say and I say it shouldn't be a place for rehab, with my following previous reasons.


I apologise if I've offended you as that was never my intention, I also didn't mean to make you feel like trash. But if you say something and then I refute that with evidence to back up my point, you can't really complain that I'm just insulting you instead of debating. The whole idea behind debate is that you question the basis of other people's opinions or arguments, which is what I did. I never insulted your intelligence, called you names, swore at you or used derogatory language. There were no insults. I think maybe you shouldn't comment on controversial topics in future if you don't want criticism or someone askng what you're basing your opinion on.
(edited 4 years ago)
@University of Hertfordshire Guest Lecturer will you be joining in with the discussion?