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Andrew97
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A234 – Joke Items Amendment

Proposed by: ANdrew97 (Speaker)
Seconded by: Connor27 MP (Con), The Mogg MP (Con), CatusStarbright MP (Independent, Deputy Speaker)

Add the following to the Petitions Section of the Guidance Document:

12) Joke Petitions may not enter division. A petition shall be considered a joke petition if the proposer of the petition or the Speaker of the House determines it to be submitted without serious political intent.

And

Amend the section titled Bill Procedure from:

1) In the House of Commons a maximum of one government bill, one non-government bill, one motion, one Ministerial Report* and one amendment per day is permitted, excluding ‘joke’ bills.

2) Once an item has been submitted it will be listed in the Hansard and marked with the date the bill will go up for discussion.

3) Each item will be assigned a number, this number will continue throughout the bill from reading to voting, a bill under discussion will be denoted a Bxx, a bill at voting will be Vxx, a motion will be Mxx, , a ministerial report as Rxx and an amendment will be Axx.

4) Each item can undergo a maximum of 3 readings: i) First Reading – Two days minimum, Six days maximum (with an additional 48 hour extension if requested) ii) Second Reading – One day minimum, Four days maximum (with an additional 24 hour extension if requested) iii) Third reading – One day minimum, Three days maximum

5) After a reading, the item is put into cessation for up to 7 days unless the proposer has asked for it to go to a new reading or to division.

6) At any point during an item's discussion the submitter can ask for a 7 day cessation period.

7) An item can be withdrawn at any point. Once an item has been withdrawn it cannot be submitted for a further reading or sent to division during the same term.

8) Joke items shall not be sent to division

To:

1) In the House of Commons a maximum of one government bill, one non-government bill, one motion, one Ministerial Report* and one amendment per day is permitted, excluding ‘joke’ bills.

2) Once an item has been submitted it will be listed in the Hansard and marked with the date the bill will go up for discussion.

3) Each item will be assigned a number, this number will continue throughout the bill from reading to voting, a bill under discussion will be denoted a Bxx, a bill at voting will be Vxx, a motion will be Mxx, , a ministerial report as Rxx and an amendment will be Axx.

4) Each item can undergo a maximum of 3 readings: i) First Reading – Two days minimum, Six days maximum (with an additional 48 hour extension if requested) ii) Second Reading – One day minimum, Four days maximum (with an additional 24 hour extension if requested) iii) Third reading – One day minimum, Three days maximum

5) After a reading, the item is put into cessation for up to 7 days unless the proposer has asked for it to go to a new reading or to division.

6) At any point during an item's discussion the submitter can ask for a 7 day cessation period.

7) An item can be withdrawn at any point. Once an item has been withdrawn it cannot be submitted for a further reading or sent to division during the same term.

8) Joke items shall not be sent to division. An item shall be considered to be a joke item if the proposer of the item or the Speaker of the House determine it to be submitted without serious political intent.


Notes: This Amendment extends the prohibition of joke items entering division to petitions, as this was a loophole that could be exploited and explains what makes the item a joke item. This clause is also added to the Bill procedure section which deals with joke Motions, Bills etc.
Last edited by Andrew97; 2 months ago
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The Mogg
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Before anyone comments on how unnecessarily long this is, I did recommend to "ANdrew" that he should rid of the 1) to 7) since it's irrelevant and unchanged as a result of the amendment, so don't blame me

But apart from that, obviously I agree with the amendment...
Last edited by The Mogg; 2 months ago
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LiberOfLondon
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Aye. I would have seconded it but Finnish Google Docs wouldn't let me katson perkeleen muutosille (look at the bloody amendment - Ed).
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Andrew97
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(Original post by The Mogg)
Before anyone comments on how unnecessarily long this is, I did recommend to "ANdrew" that he should rid of the 1) to 7) since it's irrelevant and unchanged as a result of the amendment, so don't blame me

But apart from that, obviously I agree with the amendment...
ANdrew is my evil twin, 😈😂😂

I’ll edit that.
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barnetlad
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Aye
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Saracen's Fez
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I'm undecided. In principle the same issue with spamming to fill voting reviews still exists, but also the petition process is more mechanical and I kind of think it should stay that way.

I'd also be open to considering a blanket ban on joke petitions and petition votes not counting for the review.
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shadowdweller
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Seems reasonable.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
I'm undecided. In principle the same issue with spamming to fill voting reviews still exists, but also the petition process is more mechanical and I kind of think it should stay that way.

I'd also be open to considering a blanket ban on joke petitions and petition votes not counting for the review.
I guess we can think of the refusal of Division to be like when the RL Government issues a response to an RL petition which says that the HoC isn't competent (e.g. on the petition relating to items on McDonald's menus), or just gives a very non-committal response.
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Aph
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"An item shall be considered to be a joke item if the proposer of the item or the Speaker of the House determine it to be submitted without serious political intent."


I don't like this wording, it's too open to abuse and it also means that, thanks to a previous amendment, that people can spam us with joke bills which "have no political intent" to that author but are potential politically serious points to shut down debate on the idea for the term. It should be entirely for the speaker to decide.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Aph)
"An item shall be considered to be a joke item if the proposer of the item or the Speaker of the House determine it to be submitted without serious political intent."


I don't like this wording, it's too open to abuse and it also means that, thanks to a previous amendment, that people can spam us with joke bills which "have no political intent" to that author but are potential politically serious points to shut down debate on the idea for the term. It should be entirely for the speaker to decide.
Aph it depends on whether the Speaker believes it to have been submitted without serious political intent.
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Aph
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(Original post by CatusStarbright)
Aph it depends on whether the Speaker believes it to have been submitted without serious political intent.
Or proposer. The proposer is the loophole here...
I can submit a bill next term calling for the death penalty to be reintroduced, can call it a joke and due to the amendment that states that withdrawn bills cannot come back the Conservatives cannot introduce a death penalty bill next term.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Aph)
Or proposer. The proposer is the loophole here...
I can submit a bill next term calling for the death penalty to be reintroduced, can call it a joke and due to the amendment that states that withdrawn bills cannot come back the Conservatives cannot introduce a death penalty bill next term.
Well their bill would not be the same as yours, so I don't see any problem here.
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Jammy Duel
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#13
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Is this going to have a 1 day division?
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Aph
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(Original post by CatusStarbright)
Well their bill would not be the same as yours, so I don't see any problem here.
So the no-resubmission amendment is on the wording and not ideas? Can I reword a bill minorly each time and resubmit?
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Is this going to have a 1 day division?
Nope.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Aph)
Or proposer. The proposer is the loophole here...
I can submit a bill next term calling for the death penalty to be reintroduced, can call it a joke and due to the amendment that states that withdrawn bills cannot come back the Conservatives cannot introduce a death penalty bill next term.
. What wording would be better out of interest in your opinion.
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Aph
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(Original post by Andrew97)
. What wording would be better out of interest in your opinion.
I believe that in this case, ambiguity would be better. Letting the speaker have total reign over what is a joke.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Nope.
Right, yesterday it had 6 days left, that's Wednesday, parliament dissolves on Thursday...
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Right, yesterday it had 6 days left, that's Wednesday, parliament dissolves on Thursday...
That’s a maximum reading time which I just put on automatically . It will enter division before that.
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04MR17
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It seems I'm in the minority but I'm actually against this. Petitions are the only thing that can get non-MP issues to the floor without seconding, I wouldn't wish to see anything interrupt that.
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