Would you vote conservative? Watch

pickup
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#21
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#21
(Original post by SteveyStack)
Record employment, they’ve increased the personal allowance considerably. I think people don’t realise that your life isn’t going to magically get better.

In short I don’t think I’ve got worse off as a result of the Tories. Just because there hasn’t been a major uplift isn’t a reason to vote them out imo. They are far from perfect but better the devil you know than the one you don’t.

I measure it because of record low unemployment, rising wages (over 12 months of considerable rises despite what you say) and the general incentives to work.
Unemployment record - which party has the better track record?

'However, if we look at the figures over a longer time period – back to when Thatcher became prime minister in 1979 – then Labour would undoubtedly have the best record. Under these parameters, the average unemployment rate under the Conservatives rises to more than 8.5 per cent. They oversaw the longest sustained rise in unemployment, and witnessed the single biggest annual increase.'

Statistically, the Conservatives have presided over a far slower growth in earnings than Labour, on average. Median gross annual earnings grew by an average of £638 in the six Labour years from 2005-2010 (inclusive). Then, under the Conservatives, they grew by an average of just £389 per year between 2011-2016.

Fact check Channel 4 News
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AngryRedhead
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#22
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#22
2010-2019, in case you missed it...

1,000 sure start centres closed.
780 libraries closed.
700 football pitches closed.
Food bank use up 2,400%.
Homelessness up 1,000%.
Rough sleeping up 1,200%.
Bedroom tax caused mass evictions.
Evictions are running at record highs.
35% of U.K. kids live in poverty.
Student fees up 300%.
Student debt has risen 150%.
Eradication of EMA (education maintenance allowance).
National debt has risen from £850billion to £2.25trillion.
Emergency Brexit stimulus from BoE in June 2016 of £175b.
Brexit related fall in national revenue £500b.
GDP fallen to -0.1%.
U.K. pound fallen by circa 15%, versus EUR and USD.
AAA credit rating gone.
Manufacturing in recession.
Construction in recession.
Retail in recession.
Services close to recession.
25-30% cuts to all govt departments.
25-30% cuts to all councils, mainly centred on Labour councils.
Half of councils facing effective bankruptcy.
185k extra deaths attached to the political ideology of austerity.
25,000 less police.
20,000 less prison officers.
10,000 less border officials.
10,000 less firefighters.
10,000 less medical professionals.
25,000 less bed spaces for mental illness.
OECD calculate 3 million hidden unemployed; rate is really 13%.
Creation of 1.3m jobs, mainly temporary, self employed, gig economy and ZHC.
Only 30k full time positions created.
Close on 50% of workers are self employed, ZHC, or part time precariat.
25% cuts for disabled community.
Mobility allowance cut.
Closed Remploy.
40% of working households have practically no savings.
70% of households have less than 10k savings.
80% of households can only survive 4 months without a wage.
Household debt reaches new peak, despite emergency base rates.
Increase of 350% in hate crimes.
Increase of knife crime by 150% to 22,000 per year.
Increase in teenage suicide by 70%.
Suicide up 12% in the year 2018.
Self harm among young women up 70%.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
Zero starter homes built, despite Tory flagship programme.
Council home building down 90%.
One million families on council home waiting list.
100,000 increase on the council home waiting list since 2010.


Tories; killing our people and society while stealing our assets, since 1834.
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acelenny
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#23
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#23
(Original post by AngryRedhead)
2010-2019, in case you missed it...

1,000 sure start centres closed.
780 libraries closed.
700 football pitches closed.
Food bank use up 2,400%.
Homelessness up 1,000%.
Rough sleeping up 1,200%.
Bedroom tax caused mass evictions.
Evictions are running at record highs.
35% of U.K. kids live in poverty.
Student fees up 300%.
Student debt has risen 150%.
Eradication of EMA (education maintenance allowance).
National debt has risen from £850billion to £2.25trillion.
Emergency Brexit stimulus from BoE in June 2016 of £175b.
Brexit related fall in national revenue £500b.
GDP fallen to -0.1%.
U.K. pound fallen by circa 15%, versus EUR and USD.
AAA credit rating gone.
Manufacturing in recession.
Construction in recession.
Retail in recession.
Services close to recession.
25-30% cuts to all govt departments.
25-30% cuts to all councils, mainly centred on Labour councils.
Half of councils facing effective bankruptcy.
185k extra deaths attached to the political ideology of austerity.
25,000 less police.
20,000 less prison officers.
10,000 less border officials.
10,000 less firefighters.
10,000 less medical professionals.
25,000 less bed spaces for mental illness.
OECD calculate 3 million hidden unemployed; rate is really 13%.
Creation of 1.3m jobs, mainly temporary, self employed, gig economy and ZHC.
Only 30k full time positions created.
Close on 50% of workers are self employed, ZHC, or part time precariat.
25% cuts for disabled community.
Mobility allowance cut.
Closed Remploy.
40% of working households have practically no savings.
70% of households have less than 10k savings.
80% of households can only survive 4 months without a wage.
Household debt reaches new peak, despite emergency base rates.
Increase of 350% in hate crimes.
Increase of knife crime by 150% to 22,000 per year.
Increase in teenage suicide by 70%.
Suicide up 12% in the year 2018.
Self harm among young women up 70%.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
Zero starter homes built, despite Tory flagship programme.
Council home building down 90%.
One million families on council home waiting list.
100,000 increase on the council home waiting list since 2010.


Tories; killing our people and society while stealing our assets, since 1834.
I think that you are placing a lot of blame on one party when most of these are due to a multitude of factors and are the product of decades of problems not just the last decade. For instance, saying that the Tories are to blame for more teenage suicides is just a tad silly.
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AngryRedhead
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#24
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#24
(Original post by acelenny)
I think that you are placing a lot of blame on one party when most of these are due to a multitude of factors and are the product of decades of problems not just the last decade. For instance, saying that the Tories are to blame for more teenage suicides is just a tad silly.
Families having less money which means more stress could plausibly have a knock on effect though.
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acelenny
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#25
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#25
(Original post by AngryRedhead)
Families having less money which means more stress could plausibly have a knock on effect though.
I do not deny that for a moment, However, the key is what I said about a variety of factors.

If you want to talk about knock on effects you can also look at the continuing effects of the financial crisis and Bordon Brown's policies, the debt built up under labour, the introduction of university fees, by labour, etc, etc.

It is useless playing the blame game for many (though by no means all) things because each party has done good things and bad things at various points in time.
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AngryRedhead
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#26
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#26
(Original post by acelenny)
I do not deny that for a moment, However, the key is what I said about a variety of factors.

If you want to talk about knock on effects you can also look at the continuing effects of the financial crisis and Bordon Brown's policies, the debt built up under labour, the introduction of university fees, by labour, etc, etc.

It is useless playing the blame game for many (though by no means all) things because each party has done good things and bad things at various points in time.
The national debt has done nothing but increase under the Tories, all to pay their rich cronies whilst the most vulnerable of society has suffered; all this austerity for nought.

As for the tuition fees, who trebled them? Oh that’s right, the Tories.
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umaiyyahc1
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#27
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#27
(Original post by AngryRedhead)
The national debt has done nothing but increase under the Tories, all to pay their rich cronies whilst the most vulnerable of society has suffered; all this austerity for nought.

As for the tuition fees, who trebled them? Oh that’s right, the Tories.
Loving the passion ya have for this! And yeah i agree
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acelenny
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#28
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#28
(Original post by AngryRedhead)
The national debt has done nothing but increase under the Tories, all to pay their rich cronies whilst the most vulnerable of society has suffered; all this austerity for nought.

As for the tuition fees, who trebled them? Oh that’s right, the Tories.
I see that you are choosing to ignore my point. Ok, well let us look at the two points you just made.

1) Under the Tories, the debt has risen far more slowly than it would have under Labour because of cuts and keeping spending to a minimum. Under Corbyn's plan, you can bet the NHS that debt will skyrocket. Also, you are being ridiculous to say that they have been paying the rich. That is not how these things work. Do the rich benefit? Yes, of course. But so do other people. Austerity has brough stability post 2008 and maintained it. Yes it has had a cost but it is better than experiencing the same problems as Greece, Spain, or Italy.

2) If your degree is worth anything, you will earn enough to pay off the debt. Also, because students now pay a lot to go to university, universities actually have to listen to them and provide things (especially updated housing and facilities) for them.
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remussjhj01
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#29
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#29
I would literally rather die than vote Tory.
I know it sounds dramatic, but being an LGBT person, whose parents work for the NHS or are in receipt of benefits I could not vote Tory. My Granddad has a long term illness, he would likely die without the NHS. My younger brother has Autism, my sister has mental health issues and I have gender dysphoria (the condition that causes transgenderism). We all have used, are using, or will use NHS services to get ourselves the help we need.
I don't like being scared to walk down the street. I live in a fairly liberal area too. The levels of homelessness, hate crime, poverty. 35% of young people live in poverty and that is because of Tory policies.
For me and many others, voting Tory would likely mean death or very very poor quality of life, so whilst it might be a bit hyperbolic, it's very real for me and so many other people. I'm scared of another Tory government, and many others are too.
Last edited by remussjhj01; 1 week ago
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acelenny
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#30
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#30
(Original post by remussjhj01)
I would literally rather die than vote
I say that instead of an election, we should just gather 10,000 supporters from each side in an arena and whichever side has someone alive at the end wins the election.

You can be one of them.
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umaiyyahc1
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#31
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#31
(Original post by acelenny)
I see that you are choosing to ignore my point. Ok, well let us look at the two points you just made.

1) Under the Tories, the debt has risen far more slowly than it would have under Labour because of cuts and keeping spending to a minimum. Under Corbyn's plan, you can bet the NHS that debt will skyrocket. Also, you are being ridiculous to say that they have been paying the rich. That is not how these things work. Do the rich benefit? Yes, of course. But so do other people. Austerity has brough stability post 2008 and maintained it. Yes it has had a cost but it is better than experiencing the same problems as Greece, Spain, or Italy.

2) If your degree is worth anything, you will earn enough to pay off the debt. Also, because students now pay a lot to go to university, universities actually have to listen to them and provide things (especially updated housing and facilities) for them.
HESA) show that 26,000 students in England who began studying for their first degree in 2015 did not make it beyond the first year.
University fees have increased so rapidly that just by the fees, people get put off! Conservatives only work to benefit the rich. As a sociology student i'd say its a reproduction of inequality. The poor can't afford to go to university only the rich will be able to so i disagree that the tories work to be benefit those who aren't rich
"If your degree is worth anything, you will earn enough to pay off the debt. Also, because students now pay a lot to go to university, universities actually have to listen to them and provide things (especially updated housing and facilities) for them."
Okay but not every degree is worth something. If nobody chooses to do degrees that is worth anything then tbh i think the UK will lack certain occupations .
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AdamCor
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#32
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#32
No. In terms of policy, for me, Conservative > Labour. In terms of leaders Labour > Conservative. In terms of least broken promises Labour > Conservative.
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umaiyyahc1
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#33
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#33
(Original post by AdamCor)
No. In terms of policy, for me, Conservative > Labour. In terms of leaders Labour > Conservative. In terms of least broken promises Labour > Conservative.
So overall its Labour?
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acelenny
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#34
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#34
(Original post by umaiyyahc1)
HESA) show that 26,000 students in England who began studying for their first degree in 2015 did not make it beyond the first year.
University fees have increased so rapidly that just by the fees, people get put off! Conservatives only work to benefit the rich. As a sociology student i'd say its a reproduction of inequality. The poor can't afford to go to university only the rich will be able to so i disagree that the tories work to be benefit those who aren't rich
"If your degree is worth anything, you will earn enough to pay off the debt. Also, because students now pay a lot to go to university, universities actually have to listen to them and provide things (especially updated housing and facilities) for them."
Okay but not every degree is worth something. If nobody chooses to do degrees that is worth anything then tbh i think the UK will lack certain occupations .
If you drop out after a year, that is your problem. You do however have a minimal amount to pay off. If people are put off by the money, they should find something else to do. No, under the current system, most people can afford to go to university if they choose to and can meet the requirements, especially if they do some work in holidays. The idea that the tories only beneift the rich is silly. Most Tories in parliament are not even super rich. They are wealthy certainly, but hardly mega rich.

If it is not worth something, it should not exist. But most degrees can add value somewhere. I did an Ancient History degree, it has value. Theatre, has value, photography has value, etc.
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remussjhj01
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#35
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#35
(Original post by acelenny)
I say that instead of an election, we should just gather 10,000 supporters from each side in an arena and whichever side has someone alive at the end wins the election.

You can be one of them.
Well that's charming. Nice to see you edited my post as well.
I understand the post you saw was hyperbolic, but I have edited it now, giving detail of why I feel this way, so I'm hoping you can understand now why I said what I did.
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the bear
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#36
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#36
(Original post by pickup)
Corbyn organised the Apr. 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march
EDM3933 7 Nov. 1990: Corbyn signs motion condemning the rise of antisemitism
EDM634, 11 Apr. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion condemning Datuvid Irving for being a Holocaust Denier
EDM1124, 6 Nov. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn praised the ‘British Schindler’, Bill Barazetti, for his WW2 kindertransport
EDM742, 28 Jan. 2002: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion praising football clubs for commemorating Holocaust Day
EDM1233 30 Apr. 2002: Corbyn was a primary sponsor on a motion condemning antisemitism
11 May 2002: Jeremy led a clean up of Finsbury Park Synagogue after an anti-Semitic attack
EDM1691, 23 July 2002: Corbyn condemned attacks on a synagogue in Swansea
EDM123 26 Nov. 2003: Corbyn officially condemns attacks on 2 Istanbul synagogues
EDM298, 16 Dec. 2003: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
2004: Jeremy condemned news that anti-Semitic hate crimes had risen for yet another year
EDM461, 21 Jan. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the French government’s moves to ban the Jewish Kippa in French Schools
EDM717, 26 Feb. 2004: Jeremy signed a motion praising Simon Wiesenthal for bringing Nazi perpetrators of the Holocaust to justice
EDM1613, 8 Sept. 2004: Corbyn co-sponsored a bill expressing fears for the future of the United Synagogue Pension Scheme
EDM1699, 11 Oct. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned arbitrary attacks on civilians in Israel and Palestine
EDM482, 12 Jan. 2005: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM343, 16 June 2005: Jeremy condemned the desecration of a Jewish cemetery in east London
EDM1343, 11 Jan. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM1774, 8 Mar. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn led condemnations of an Iranian Magazine soliciting cartoons about the Holocaust
EDM1267, 16 Apr. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn condemned Bryan Ferry for anti-Semitic remarks
EDM2414, 26 June 2006: Jeremy Corbyn praised British war veterans for their efforts to combat the Holocaust
EDM2705, 10 Oct. 2006: Jeremy signed a motion marking the 70th anniversary of Cable Street
EDM271, 14 Nov. 2007: Jeremy co-sponsored a motion lamenting the poverty and social exclusion East London Jews suffered
EDM153, 12 May 2008: Corbyn praised the efforts of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto during the uprising of 1944
EDM2350, 27 Oct 2008: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion marking the 70th anniversary of the horrors of the holocaust
EDM173, 8 Dec. 2008: Jeremy condemned the Press Complaints Commission for refusing to sanction The Times for antisemitism
EDM461, 14 Jan. 2009: Jeremy Corbyn condemned a wave of recent anti-Semitic incidents targeted
EDM605, 27 Jan. 2009: Corbyn signed John Mann’s motion condemning antisemitism on university campuses
EDM917 26 Feb. 2009: Jeremy signs a motion condemning antisemitism on the internet
EDM1175 24 Mar. 2009: Corbyn signs a motion praising the heroism of British Jews during Holocaust
EDM337, 2 Dec. 2009: Jeremy Condemned Iran’s treatment of Jewish minorities in Iran
EDM850 9 Feb. 2010: Jeremy joins in calls for Facebook to do more to fight antisemitism
EDM891: 22 Feb 2010: Corbyn co-sponsors a motion calling for Yemen’s Jews to be given refugee status to the UK
EDM908 27 Oct. 2010: Corbyn praises work of late Israeli PM in his pursuit of a 2 state solution
EDM1360, 27 Jan. 2011: Corbyn co-sponsored a motion praising the ‘never again for anyone initiative’
EDM1527, 3 Mar. 2011: Corbyn backed Ian Paisley's motion condemning the anti-Semitic remarks of Dior's lead fashion designer
EDM2870, 14 Mar. 2012: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the sale of Nazi memorabilia at an auction in Bristol
EDM2866, 14 Mar 2012: Jeremy Corbyn co-sponsored a bill condemning the rise of antisemitism in Lithuania
EDM2899, 20 Mar. 2012, Jeremy Corbyn condemned a terrorist attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse
EDM168, 12 June 2012, Jeremy co-sponsored a motion condemning anti-Semitic attacks during EURO 2012 in Poland
EDM 195 13 June 2012: Jeremy attacks BBC for cutting Jewish programmes from Its schedule
EDM 1133 1 Mar 2013: Corbyn joins a chorus of calls condemning antisemitism In sport
1 Oct. 2013: Corbyn was one of the few MPs who defended Ralph Miliband from Daily Mail antisemitism
EDM 932 9 Jan 2014: Jeremy praises Holocaust Memorial's work on antisemitism education
EDM 165 22 June 2015: Jeremy condemns a Neo-Nazi rally planned for a Jewish area of London
Sat 4 July 2015: Jeremy co-planned a counter-fascist demo in defence of Jewish residents at Golders Green. The march was re-routed
18 Nov. 2015, Corbyn used one of his first PMQs to challenge Cameron to do more on antisemiUsm
9 Oct 2016: Corbyn, close to tears, leads commemoration of the Battle of Cable Street
3 Dec. 2016: Corbyn visits Terezin Concentration Camp to commemorate Holocaust victims
In 2017-19 Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party
Corbyn has already received extensive support from Orthodox Jewish leaders. Thirty-four leading rabbis signed a letter praising Labour's "respected leader" and describing attacks on him as "irresponsible". The letter was attacked as a fake by Corbyn's critics, who were later forced to withdraw the claim when evidence was revealed by the SKWAWKBOX that they were aware of its authenticity.
hmmmm the Chief Rabbi is not convinced.
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AdamCor
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#37
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#37
(Original post by umaiyyahc1)
So overall its Labour?
Yeah, plus Labour has a much more effect on my area, since Conservatives say things like "build 40 new hospitals" then cut funding from my area's 2 biggest hospitals.
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bubblecat
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#38
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#38
No I wouldn’t. They don’t have enough policies I agree with and the voting record of their leader worries me.
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AngryRedhead
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#39
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#39
(Original post by acelenny)
I see that you are choosing to ignore my point. Ok, well let us look at the two points you just made.

1) Under the Tories, the debt has risen far more slowly than it would have under Labour because of cuts and keeping spending to a minimum. Under Corbyn's plan, you can bet the NHS that debt will skyrocket. Also, you are being ridiculous to say that they have been paying the rich. That is not how these things work. Do the rich benefit? Yes, of course. But so do other people. Austerity has brough stability post 2008 and maintained it. Yes it has had a cost but it is better than experiencing the same problems as Greece, Spain, or Italy.

2) If your degree is worth anything, you will earn enough to pay off the debt. Also, because students now pay a lot to go to university, universities actually have to listen to them and provide things (especially updated housing and facilities) for them.
Our national debt is still massive at the cost of everything I listed above and we have no way of comparing the rate of spending so that’s a moot point
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acelenny
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#40
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#40
(Original post by AdamCor)
Yeah, plus Labour has a much more effect on my area, since Conservatives say things like "build 40 new hospitals" then cut funding from my area's 2 biggest hospitals.
Yeah, but let's just spend as much as we like on the NHS and run the economy into the ground. Even if the top 10% of the country paid 90% tax and the major businesses paid say, 60% with no loopholes, it would still not be enough. The NHS cannot survive and it must change to a more affordable system. It is a great idea but there is a reason no on else has coppied it exactly.

A German, French, Australian, or Japanese system would be better overall I think.
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