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    (Original post by fungixsai)
    life must be absolutely awful for someone to want to kill themselves. I can't even imagine how bad it must be cause i've never felt like it.
    To people who commit suicide it must feel like escape or an end or eternal sleep or whatever they want to think.
    But whose to say death is better than life?

    As bad as anything ever got in my life i'd stay with life , cause it's what i know.Cause even if it's almost non-existent there's a chance that life can get better but once you're dead....?

    Then what ? How do you know what "nothing" is like , can you even imagine not being conscious ?

    For anyone whose depressed or considering killing themselves it's not a matter of selfishness.
    Please try to believe in hope and love.

    xxx
    In my experience there are three 'reasons' people kill themselves.

    1) When a person has been through trauma or grief i.e. the death of a loved one, and therefore experiences suicidal feelings. Sometimes they will act upon them, sometimes they won't, depending on the severity of the feelings, the temperament of the person and the support that they receive. In this situation, people are only able to focus on the grief, sadness and loss; it is as if they have blinkers on to anything good and are 'blinded'.

    2) People with depression i.e. the 'normal' type of depression where everything seems bad and they have suicidal feelings. Perhaps something goes wrong or upsets them a lot and they act on their feelings. In both cases 1) and 2) these are people living in society who are going through a very difficult time and feel unable to cope with life or that life is no longer worth living.

    3) People with severe mental illness. Schizophrenia, psychosis, psychotic depression, borderline personality disorder. Etc. I once knew someone with psychotic depression and if he had killed himself - whatever method he'd used - I would not have called him selfish. Imagine going through life seeing, hearing, smelling and touching things that weren't really there - not nice things either - in and out of psychiatric wards, going from medication to medication to medication, with everyone around you treating you like you were insane.

    If someone is at the point of suicide they are not thinking rationaly. They are beyond being selfish or unselfish.
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    (Original post by Mata)
    If someone is at the point of suicide they are not thinking rationally. They are beyond being selfish or unselfish.
    Yeah i know i said " its not a matter of selfishness"
    I was just putting my point across that something you know(life) is surely safer than something you don't know(death). I was in no way vilifying people who've killed themselves or are considering doing so. I did say " i can't imagine life being that bad" i was just trying to encourage people to find love and hope. What's so wrong with that?

    If they can't find hope and love then its unfortunate but hopefully my words can help someone.

    Sometimes it seems like people on TSR are generally aversive to any kind of positivity...
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    There are a tiny minority of suicides / attempted suicides where the suicidal persons intention is to make others suffer - these, I think, are undeniably selfish.

    There is an even smaller number (perhaps larger in the past) where one person sacrifices there own life to save others, which is the very opposite of selfish

    The vast majority of suicides in the UK are by people suffering from a form of mental illness, and quite frankly, accusing someone with psychosis, schizophrenia or bipolar disorder of being selfish is missing the wood for the trees - these people are just not capable of thinking about others feelings, and they need help, rather than being pilloried and accused of selfishness.

    I fully believe that someone suffering from a terminal illness should have the right to choose how to end their life, and I don't consider that selfish.

    There is a relatively small number of people who may just feel that they do not want to live anymore, for reasons unrelated to mental illness or a terminal condition. They may not have any loved ones around them (in which case I don't think they could be considered selfish), but if they do, then I think they have a duty to consider the effects that their action would have on their family.

    The majority of suicides are by people suffering from depression - this is an extremely serious illness which can affect the way that people think. Again, labelling such people as selfish is manifestly unhelpful, although I will accept that there is a broad range of feelings within those depressed people who are contemplating suicide which could constitute as selfishness.

    So in answer to your question - in the majority "no", with a tiny bit of "yes" mixed in.
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    All the people forcing the suicidal person to stay alive are the selfish ones. You're taking away that person's choice to live or not just so you don't get hurt, what's the point in living for someone else, not yourself.
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    Hi saber, I would agree that a person has a right to choose whether to live or die, but in a lot of cases people with suicidal intent are not in a position to make that choice, because they have a mental illness which affects the way they see the world. I accept that these people do not deserve to be labelled as selfish, but I think they should be helped, rather than just left to kill themselves. Mental illness can usually be treated, and suicidal impulses can recede.
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    But sad people are usually said to have a more realistic view of reality than their counterparts. It's not always a mental illness but rather a person that has lost hope in the future.
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    It can be quite selfish in a way - destroying the family etc - but i think for some people it feels as though its the only way out...
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    I had a teacher once who strongly believed in fate and signs. He often had these dreams about seeing signposts he'd never seen before, or driving through rainbows, and he strongly believed that you had no right whatsoever to commit suicide. This is because he thought that your life was shared with everyone around you. You become a part of their life, just as much as they become a part of your own.

    I didn't realise the full effect of this until a classmates boyfriend died in a car crash and his myspace page was littered with notes saying 'i can't believe you're gone', and 'i'll remember you forever'. Even though I didn't know the person it really touched a nerve with me which just emphasises the fact that a life is never just your own, no matter how depressed you feel.
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    (Original post by kat2pult)
    I had a teacher once who strongly believed in fate and signs. He often had these dreams about seeing signposts he'd never seen before, or driving through rainbows, and he strongly believed that you had no right whatsoever to commit suicide. This is because he thought that your life was shared with everyone around you. You become a part of their life, just as much as they become a part of your own.

    I didn't realise the full effect of this until a classmates boyfriend died in a car crash and his myspace page was littered with notes saying 'i can't believe you're gone', and 'i'll remember you forever'. Even though I didn't know the person it really touched a nerve with me which just emphasises the fact that a life is never just your own, no matter how depressed you feel.
    Life is always your own.
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    (Original post by SoundDevastation)
    I think it is incredibly selfish to accuse someone who is suicidal and therefore mentally ill, as being 'selfish'.. people cant be expected to consider the feelings of others when they can barely care about their own. If you're suffering from depression the whole world caves in on you and it gets to the point when you want the pain to stop no matter what.. its not a case of being selfish as there is no rational thought.

    People should have control over their own lives IMO.
    :ditto:, great post; speaks just what was on my mind :yes:. Reps coming to you .
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    (Original post by Sanity Panda)
    Life is always your own.
    I strongly disagree.

    Are you saying that when you stay out late your parents have no right to worry? Are you saying that there's no point in love or friendship?

    Yes, you have some control of your life, but it's never completely your own.

    It's completely unfeasible to even consider that your life is your own when you rely so much on others to support you emotionally, physically, economically etc.! I feel like you're almost allowing those kids to go around killing each other because it's 'their own life'. That's a pretty disgusting attitude to have.
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    No more selfish than breeding too many children. Probably good for the planet aswell
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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    It's always been my opinion, that if someone really, really wants to just die and leave the world, then they should be allowed to- and that the most selfish people are the ones who insist on keeping them alive for their own reasons. It's ultimately a person's own choice what they do with their life, and that extends to ending it.

    Edit: And I'm all for Futurama-style suicide booths!

    Well alot of the time it can depend entirely on their situation. Do they have a family? Do they have kids to support? Alot of working men commit suicide over unpayable debts, without considering how this will effect their immediate family.

    And other similar situations. In most cases these people will have close family, and its not only painful for the family to see their relative die in such a way, but unfair. If it was your son/daughter... You would feel that you have spent your entire life looking out for them, supporting them, just for this to be the end. Maybe you would be expecting them to look after you in your old age, as you looked after them in their youths.
    Everyone has responsibilities, I think this is just one way of running away from them.

    But, in the case of suicide due to unimaginable physical pain, or illness etc. Then these are different circumstances, I don't really have an opinion on.
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    humans by nature are selfish - as are most other life forms. So although suicide may be described as selfish, I don't think it's anymore selfish than any other act such as eating or sleeping.
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    (Original post by m4n0ran)
    Remember a thread not so long ago on H&R where someone said that suicide was the most selfish thing in the world. The culprit got pounced on pretty quickly and the post was deleted, but I thought it would make an interesting discussion.

    Now before I get pounced on here, a close relative of mine was depressed and considered killing himself, and I know that alot of TSR users suffer from depression. I am not condoning their suicidal behaviour. On one side of the coin, you can argue that for some people living life is too painful and no one else can understand, with all these worries about the future and stuff such as relationships and finane making your life hell. On the other hand, one could argue that people who commit suicide take the easy way out and do not consider the impact it will have on their family and those around them.

    Personally I believe that, never being suicidal myself, I'm not really in a position to comment, that's why I'd love your ideas about this. I guess we can also allow discussion on people who are suicidal because of the way they live, such as 'emos' (I hate the generalised word but how else can I refer to them, using a term everyone is familiar with?). I was very bitter at my relative's suicidal tendencies at first and thought it was a very selfish thing to do, but I am older and wiser now, and can begin to understand the pain he was going through. In short, I do believe that suicide is selfish to an extent. Neg me if you will, but I am just speaking my mind here. However, I do think overiding my impression of selfishness is the pain that these people are said to go through.

    I guess I think this way because when I look back I wonder how ****ed up I would have been if my relative killed himself
    By that token of thought, surely the whole notion of death is selfish?
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    Of course it is. But selfishness is not always a bad thing and in this cause i don't think i could condem anyone who commited suicide.
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    (Original post by kat2pult)
    I strongly disagree.

    Are you saying that when you stay out late your parents have no right to worry? Are you saying that there's no point in love or friendship?

    Yes, you have some control of your life, but it's never completely your own.

    It's completely unfeasible to even consider that your life is your own when you rely so much on others to support you emotionally, physically, economically etc.! I feel like you're almost allowing those kids to go around killing each other because it's 'their own life'. That's a pretty disgusting attitude to have.
    Kids aren't allowed to go around killing each other because that's interfering with other lives without their permission.

    Friendship and love aren't pointless. They show that we share our lives with others, but that doesn't mean that our lives belong to them as well. When we die, we'll die alone even though the bonds for them haven't disappeared.

    The parent has the right to worry, but... what about it?
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    I agree suicide isn't generally selfish, because I don't think you can brand someone with a mental illness selfish or not, they're ill, and they're not thinking irrationally out of choice.

    I also agree that its selfish to expect someone else to live if they absolutely don't want to. However, most suicidal people don't actually want to die, they just see no other way out of how awful they feel, so I think this argument is slightly flawed.
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    (Original post by gaijin)
    By that token of thought, surely the whole notion of death is selfish?
    No, you are totally misreading.
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    People who try to kill themselves fall into one of several catagories;

    1) People who are mentally ill
    2) People who have genuinely no reason to go on living
    3) (the largest catagory) people who want attention, are weak-minded and massively self-absorbed.


    The last catagory almost always fails to actually commit suicide. Instead they do something dramatic and non lethal.

    Having lost an uncle due to suicide for imo, fairly good reasons (he had terminal cancer and his wife left him when she found out, no kids); I dont think all suicide is selfish, sometimes it genuinely is the least painful option.

    I do however think the tonnes of drama-queen kids who 'tried to kill themselves' by taking 8 asprin and 25cl of whiskey, or by making some ineffectual scratchings on their wrists, are painfully selfish idiots. I dont believe in 'depression' as a mental illness or good excuse. I have been clinically depressed, and eventually overcame it with willpower (and more specifically by forcing myself into a healthy routine). People who wallow in their depression disgust me; while I agree its a condition that makes you feel worse than ****, you CAN pull yourself out of it if you are strong enough.

    Basically if you want to kill yourself, you will. You wont fail.

    PS: for those interested its down the street not across the tracks with the razor blade; sideways just hits tendons.

    Cue neg rep
 
 
 
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