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    (Original post by OhNO!)

    I don't believe in punishment full stop. I believe in discipline, it has to teach a lesson and teach the child what to do next time.
    Sometimes, if a child is completely out of order, sees no reason, will not be bargained with etc only some force can sort them out. Would you just let your child smash your TV, punch you, hit your other daughter/son etc and just stand there and do nothing?
    If you would then I needn't say anymore...
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    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    Sometimes, if a child is completely out of order, sees no reason, will not be bargained with etc only some force can sort them out. Would you just let your child smash your TV, punch you, hit your other daughter/son etc and just stand there and do nothing?
    If you would then I needn't say anymore...
    why is it a choice between hitting them, or doing nothing? if my child was being that aggressive, I certainly wouldn't add to the mix by hitting them back - but I wouldn't do nothing, either.
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    I never said hitting them - I said force - i.e. restrain them/whatever.
    Read it again.

    You seem to be completely against any force which stinks of the hypocritical doormat society we are creating today - groaning about children and discipline out the window and taking away power from the state and parents to actually discipline anyone at the same time.

    *sighs*
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    OhNO! - I'm sure we can both find examples of children smacked and not smacked who've turned out wonderfully, i'm just saying it appears smacking is more effective, and is sometimes necessary. Philosoraptor and danielle89 have given most of the reasons i had in mind, good luck raising your children.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    why is it a choice between hitting them, or doing nothing? if my child was being that aggressive, I certainly wouldn't add to the mix by hitting them back - but I wouldn't do nothing, either.
    So what would you do to a child that wouldn't reason?
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    my mum used to get the wooden spoon lol it just made me behave better, although i did get angry and annoyed but i think it did me gd.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    So what would you do to a child that wouldn't reason?
    that's far too vague a question to answer with any real meaning.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    that's far too vague a question to answer with any real meaning.
    Well you said:

    why is it a choice between hitting them, or doing nothing? if my child was being that aggressive, I certainly wouldn't add to the mix by hitting them back - but I wouldn't do nothing, either.
    So, what is it that you would do? You can't say you wouldn't do nothing, and then say its too vague when pressed for details. That's just a copout.
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    This is the reason I will never raise a hand to my child.

    Senario: You have a 7 year old boy. His school have called to ask you to pick him up because he has hit a child in the playground after the first child took his Top Trumps cards. You pick up the boy, take him home and spank him for his actions.

    Exactly what have you taught that child? That when something goes wrong, use violence to punish it. Children don't tend to distinguse, in my opinion, between different types of physical punishment (eg the difference between a punch and a slap). You're only teaching them to use violence to reach an end, in my eyes.
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    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    I never said hitting them - I said force - i.e. restrain them/whatever.
    Read it again.

    You seem to be completely against any force which stinks of the hypocritical doormat society we are creating today - groaning about children and discipline out the window and taking away power from the state and parents to actually discipline anyone at the same time.

    *sighs*
    this is a topic about smacking, obviously I assumed that by "force" you meant hitting. I wouldn't necessarily define force as restraint, toddlers especially have to be physically picked up and removed from situations in which they are causing harm to themselves or others. I'm not against anything like that.

    I don't groan about anything. I completely practice what I preach when looking after children, and will continue to do so when I have children of my own. I would support a smacking ban, but only run in parallel with programmes to educate parents on how to effectively raise their children without physical aggression.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    that's far too vague a question to answer with any real meaning.
    OK. Here's the deal. Your 6 year old child is picking up boxes of cereal or whatever in a supermarket and throwing them all over the shop. When you tell him/her to quit it, he/she ignores you and continues, before kicking at a display case. What do you do? You don't believe in force (restraining them is out) and you don't believe in smacking. Solution?
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    (Original post by Spotty Dog)
    Exactly what have you taught that child? That when something goes wrong, use violence to punish it.
    Nope. Whe something goes wrong, you do something. The problem is people use the word "violence" to evoke fear in people, and as a consequence people are too scared to discipline. There's a difference between hitting a child for doing something wrong and beating him black and blue. If some people don't understand that, they deserve the state of the society that we live in.
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    (Original post by Spotty Dog)
    This is the reason I will never raise a hand to my child.

    Senario: You have a 7 year old boy. His school have called to ask you to pick him up because he has hit a child in the playground after the first child took his Top Trumps cards. You pick up the boy, take him home and spank him for his actions.

    Exactly what have you taught that child? That when something goes wrong, use violence to punish it. Children don't tend to distinguse, in my opinion, between different types of physical punishment (eg the difference between a punch and a slap). You're only teaching them to use violence to reach an end, in my eyes.
    In this situation you wouldn't. Here's a scenario: you tell them to do something and they simply won't respond to your order, you tell them again, and they just carry on doing what they're doing - you would have to hit them.

    A school fight isn't misbehaving, children have arguements that end up turning into fights, it's natural. I'd be worried if the kid did nothing and just took a beating without defending themselves. And hitting a child doesn't mean they're going to turn into bullies, there are bullies that were smacked and bullies that were not.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    Well you said:

    So, what is it that you would do? You can't say you wouldn't do nothing, and then say its too vague when pressed for details. That's just a copout.
    what would I do in what situation? smashing up a television? that would depend on the age of the child, and why they were acting so aggressively.

    I believe in using logical consequences, a child who smashed a television would have to help pay for a new one. I would also have to deal with whatever was the reason for their aggression, but without knowing what that was - I can't really say what I would do.

    it's situational, I don't have a one-size-fits all answer.
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    OhNO - good luck raising your children, seriously.

    It's pussy-footing around like yours that have made todays society of child killers & bullies what it is today.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    what would I do in what situation? smashing up a television? that would depend on the age of the child, and why they were acting so aggressively.

    I believe in using logical consequences, a child who smashed a television would have to help pay for a new one. I would also have to deal with whatever was the reason for their aggression, but without knowing what that was - I can't really say what I would do.

    it's situational, I don't have a one-size-fits all answer.
    We've already discussed that the child is not seeing reason - using logical steps is not going to work.

    As for the part in bold - a five year old child is going to have the money for a TV from where? :eek:
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    We've already discussed that the child is not seeing reason - using logical steps is not going to work.

    As for the part in bold - a five year old child is going to have the money for a TV from where? :eek:
    Exactly, I'm fed up already with this thread.
    Also OhNo you mentioned that you practice what you preach with other children (I presume you mean childminding etc)
    OF COURSE I would NOT smack children if I were childminding - that's against the law for a start - this is about one's own children.
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    (Original post by Danielle89)
    OK. Here's the deal. Your 6 year old child is picking up boxes of cereal or whatever in a supermarket and throwing them all over the shop. When you tell him/her to quit it, he/she ignores you and continues, before kicking at a display case. What do you do? You don't believe in force (restraining them is out) and you don't believe in smacking. Solution?
    well, firstly, I wouldn't go into a supermarket with a six-year-old without some plan to keep them relatively engaged and interested. I used to nanny for a six-year-old, and when I'd take her to the supermarket or the shops - she had her own little trolley that came with a play set she had, and I would give her her own shopping list that was illustrated with stickers and pictures and as a reward for helping me she'd get a little present of a magazine or something. this generally eliminated any tantrums.

    if a child was having a tantrum in a shop, I would most certainly pick them up and take them back into the car or outside, for them to calm down where they can't cause any havoc. I would then try to work out the reason for their tantrum. we had a phrase, HALT, "hungry, angry, lonely, tired" which sums up the majority of the reasons for children's tantrums.

    then I'd take them back into the shop, to apologise to whoever had to tidy up after them. I'd also expect them to do a few extra chores around the house to "pay for" any damaged cereal boxes and I'd have to talk to them about how we act in public.

    I would hope that a six-year-old would be getting past the tantrum stage, though. I'd have to think for the future as to why they were acting so disrespectfully.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    well, firstly, I wouldn't go into a supermarket with a six-year-old without some plan to keep them relatively engaged and interested. I used to nanny for a six-year-old, and when I'd take her to the supermarket or the shops - she had her own little trolley that came with a play set she had, and I would give her her own shopping list that was illustrated with stickers and pictures and as a reward for helping me she'd get a little present of a magazine or something. this generally eliminated any tantrums.

    if a child was having a tantrum in a shop, I would most certainly pick them up and take them back into the car or outside, for them to calm down where they can't cause any havoc. I would then try to work out the reason for their tantrum. we had a phrase, HALT, "hungry, angry, lonely, tired" which sums up the majority of the reasons for children's tantrums.

    then I'd take them back into the shop, to apologise to whoever had to tidy up after them. I'd also expect them to do a few extra chores around the house to "pay for" any damaged cereal boxes and I'd have to talk to them about how we act in public.

    I would hope that a six-year-old would be getting past the tantrum stage, though. I'd have to think for the future as to why they were acting so disrespectfully.
    THis is pretty much exactly how I would act.

    (Also, it's EXACTLY what I o with my nephew when I take him shopping. He has his own list of things to look out for, he puts it in his trolley and I give him some money at the end to pay for his bit of shopping seperately.)

    I have also been known to stand outside a car while my 5 year old niece throws a temper tantrum inside said car for nearly 30 minutes before she calmed down enough to explain to me what was wrong.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    We've already discussed that the child is not seeing reason - using logical steps is not going to work.

    As for the part in bold - a five year old child is going to have the money for a TV from where? :eek:
    ok, so it's a five-year-old? well, I would still expect them to do extra chores around the house in order to help 'pay' for a new television. I would not try to use anything logical on a five-year-old child, or any age child, in the heat of the moment, I would remove them immediately from the situation and calm them down. logical consequences would still come later. I'd also try to involve them in the various aspects of replacing the television, so they child could see the longer ranging consequences in replacing the television.

    the focus of my response to that situation would not be replacing the television though, it would be why the child had done it in the first place and how to deal with that.
 
 
 
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