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Service personnel are to be given university education free of charge watch

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    The problem here is what the public know and perceive is vastly different to reality. When most operations are in force the chances are that aircraft etc will be available to take people out of theatre to an R and R location. The costs will be minimal in comparison to the retail cost of a holiday for a family of 4 or an individual.

    When I was serving most people on a 4 month deployment got 5-7 days R and R. Where that was varied and it could always be cancelled so its not a given that people swan off to some all inclusive resort for a week.

    I think the bottom line with the military is that they are a necessary evil. In years to come we can teach our children love and respect and the art of discussion to resolve problems. The main flaw in that is the fact that the whole world would need to adopt our modus operandi and moral standards. Can you see this happening?

    With that in mind I firmly believe we need to support the forces and ensure the package offered is fair and desirable otherwise we might not have these volunteers happily signing there life away, then what happens?

    Lets not take the thread too off topic as it is fast becoming a debate on the moral ramifications of having a military and a discussion on military hardware.
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    I am not sure if this has been mentioned before but what about Scottish soldiers? Is University not free in Scotland? Does this not mean that a member of the Scots Guards for example gets fewer benefits than an English Soldier?
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    (Original post by Varsity)
    I am not sure if this has been mentioned before but what about Scottish soldiers? Is University not free in Scotland? Does this not mean that a member of the Scots Guards for example gets fewer benefits than an English Soldier?
    I think the rules on Scottish students are wide and varied. The basics are if you are a resident in Scotland you get tuition free of charge. How they determine status is quite complex although it would not surprise me if there is a clause for Scottish servicemen that entitles them to free tuition once they leave and return to Scotland.

    That said SAAS will pay a proportion of tuition fees for those who elect to study in England and who are Scottish residents so it may be that a Scottish servicemen who leaves and choses to study in England would have some funding granted.

    Who knows really?
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7503807.stm

    What do people think?

    Call me a cynic but this seems to be a move to placate the protests calling for the armed forces to be paid more and treated better. It's too easy for defence ministers to say "but look, we're giving them free university after they finish." (That and it may help with the manpower shortage.)

    How many ex-soldiers are going to be in a position to take advantage of this and how many will want to?

    Also, will it in effect push those from poorer backgrounds into the armed forces (and into the line of fire) in the hope that in 6 years time they'll get free tuition?

    I always thought that one of the strengths of our armed forces is that it is made up of volunteers and is highly regarded by most people - therefore the standard and morale of them is quite resilient. How will it be affected by people who are not going in because they desire to do so but because they are looking for a financially cheaper route into higher education?
    1) It may be set up similar to the medics in the army - that the army pays for education first, and then you are do your service. If you chose to break that contract and not go into the army after doing uni you have to pay back the fees with interest.

    2) It will reduce the number of people leaving the army and finding they have few transferable skills + qualifications to fall back on.

    3) It will increase the number of people looking to join the army. More so i think in middle classes who are liable for ridiculously big tuition fees.


    I personally think its a superb idea. Win-win - its an incentive to join the army, it reqards those who join the army, and it increases the education level of thousands.

    Brilliant.
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    I personally think its a superb idea. Win-win - its an incentive to join the army, it reqards those who join the army, and it increases the education level of thousands.

    Brilliant.
    Jamie AKA Foolfarion?? Wow, I have been gone a while.

    I also think it's a great idea.
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    Here, Here!!
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    Oh sorry.....maybe should go to Uni and learn to spell...Hear Hear!
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    Jamie AKA Foolfarion?? Wow, I have been gone a while.

    I also think it's a great idea.
    Foolfarian, that was indeed me back in the day.
    has been a lonnnnnnng time since i frequented D&D

    But glad you agree on this superb initiative. Glad to see the cgovernment can come up with the odd common sense idea!
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    Haha Agent Smith your name says it all, get your head out of your arse and look away from the computer screen for ten minutes. This is nothing new its been going on for years. Get over it. The Government needs the armed forces, which in the current climate it is stupidly hard to get people to fill the positions. What else can they do? Incentives thats what. Idiot.

    Also not everyone in the armed forces is an idiot who leaves unqualified, they also need qualifications to progress to higher ranks such as DER DER DERRRRRR a degree, which the governemnt pay for while they are still serving.

    ALSO are you appalled the governemnt are paying my step mum to do teacher training courses at UNI to further her carrer as a college lecturer. Hahaha oh noesss shes stealing governments monies...


    By the sgt comment I would hazard a guess all he knows is what he has read, do you actually know anyone serving in the forces, or in fact have any first hand experience what the MoD is going thorugh, or do you rely on the Daily Mail for your ill informed facts?
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    1) It may be set up similar to the medics in the army - that the army pays for education first, and then you are do your service. If you chose to break that contract and not go into the army after doing uni you have to pay back the fees with interest.

    2) It will reduce the number of people leaving the army and finding they have few transferable skills + qualifications to fall back on.

    3) It will increase the number of people looking to join the army. More so i think in middle classes who are liable for ridiculously big tuition fees.


    I personally think its a superb idea. Win-win - its an incentive to join the army, it reqards those who join the army, and it increases the education level of thousands.

    Brilliant.




    Exactly!
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    (Original post by SyncMaster710)
    Haha Agent Smith your name says it all, get your head out of your arse and look away from the computer screen for ten minutes. This is nothing new its been going on for years. Get over it.
    I'm sorry, I can't hear you, I've got my head up my arse.
    The Government needs the armed forces, which in the current climate it is stupidly hard to get people to fill the positions. What else can they do? Incentives thats what. Idiot.
    I don't know, maybe give them proper kit so they don't die so much?
    Also not everyone in the armed forces is an idiot who leaves unqualified, they also need qualifications to progress to higher ranks such as DER DER DERRRRRR a degree, which the governemnt pay for while they are still serving.
    So?
    ALSO are you appalled the governemnt are paying my step mum to do teacher training courses at UNI to further her carrer as a college lecturer. Hahaha oh noesss shes stealing governments monies...
    Yes. She should have been able to pay, herself, for the products/services she consumed. Is that so hard to understand?
    By the sgt comment I would hazard a guess all he knows is what he has read, do you actually know anyone serving in the forces, or in fact have any first hand experience what the MoD is going thorugh, or do you rely on the Daily Mail for your ill informed facts?
    No, I don't have any experience. Does that mean I should shut up and go away, or does the fact that I can read, analyse and critically evaluate sources have any bearing on this? After all, you don't have a degree in Computer Science, but lo and behold, here you are on the Internet, much to our mutual profit.
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    What a berk.
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    (Original post by SyncMaster710)
    What a berk.
    ...
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    (Original post by Seani B)
    Not everyone in the armed forces are on the front line.
    They are on current ops. Even chefs have been hit.

    (Original post by Seani B)
    Police officers are in more danger than some armed forces personnel, yet they don't receive insentives like this, apart from their pension scheme.
    Police officers can go on strike. They don't make an oath. They don't have to live in crappy accomadation given out by the government. They don't have to go into war zones. I could go on.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    we don't employ conscription in this country
    Hense why you should respect those brave men and women for volunteering to do the job!

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Who is it that has to pay these incentives for the armed services? The tax payer, hard working top rate paying people like my dad. Why should he have to subsidise people in the army, they don't have to join up if they don't want to.
    Tony Blair didn't have to become PM, but taxpayers still paid to refurbish one of his taxpayer piad houses. We also paid for his TV licence.

    MP's have wasted much more cash than the military will do under this scheme. This scheme will invest in soldiers who will go out and work thus benifiting the economy.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Personally I don't even think we should be bothering about the accomodation they live in, we don't bother about police officers or civil servants accomodation.
    They can get their own houses...

    (Original post by Seani B)
    Off the point slightly, i may be incorrect, but haven't the RAF worked in hostile war everyday since its creation in 1 April 1918. i'm sure i heard that somewhere. (could be wrong)
    so although the risk of death is much higher in iraq etc, the risk has always been pretty high since its creation.
    Not sure on that but here is one I do know:
    Every year from 1945 the British military have lost at least one soldier to hostile enemy fire while protecting UK interests abroad. The only exception is the year 1964(?) I believe.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    People will always join up if the recruiters do their job right. In America people who can't afford to go to college tend to join the army, nothing wrong with that, thats basically what happens here, except money isn't the problem its qualifications.
    Not really. 85% of Sandhurst graduates hold a degree and all must hold 140 UCAS points with two A levels at A-C.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Next time you watch a football game at Newcaslte or Middlesbrough take not of how many army adverts you see pitch side lol.
    Your point? See how many ciggarette or nike adverts you see. Lots of people watch football, it is common sence to advertise where the masses will see it.

    (Original post by munchie_rox)
    Its heavily subsidised, 24 a week for three cooked meals a day
    But in many areas the food is shocking now that we have private contractors. Sodexho are the worst I have had. Truly terrible.
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    They are on current ops. Even chefs have been hit.


    Police officers can go on strike. They don't make an oath. They don't have to live in crappy accomadation given out by the government. They don't have to go into war zones. I could go on.


    Hense why you should respect those brave men and women for volunteering to do the job!


    Tony Blair didn't have to become PM, but taxpayers still paid to refurbish one of his taxpayer piad houses. We also paid for his TV licence.

    MP's have wasted much more cash than the military will do under this scheme. This scheme will invest in soldiers who will go out and work thus benifiting the economy.


    They can get their own houses...


    Not sure on that but here is one I do know:
    Every year from 1945 the British military have lost at least one soldier to hostile enemy fire while protecting UK interests abroad. The only exception is the year 1964(?) I believe.


    Not really. 85% of Sandhurst graduates hold a degree and all must hold 140 UCAS points with two A levels at A-C.


    Your point? See how many ciggarette or nike adverts you see. Lots of people watch football, it is common sence to advertise where the masses will see it.


    But in many areas the food is shocking now that we have private contractors. Sodexho are the worst I have had. Truly terrible.
    You trollop, I'm talking about the non comissioned; I know you need A levels for Sandhurtst, but the Geordies, Sousers and those from Essex don't go there do they, they get shoved on the front line after firing blanks for a few weeks at a range in Devon lol.

    Tony Blair was elected by his Sedgefield constituents, he was an MP and prime minister, with that comes benefits. If we don't like it, his constituents wouldn't elect him. We don't elect people in the armed forces do we, there is far greater accountability with the scenario you are talking about, stupid comparison.

    Police officers and Teachers are on roughly the same as those in the armed services, how can they afford housing more than someone serving as you postulated
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    (Original post by 122025278)
    You trollop
    Charmed i'm sure

    (Original post by 122025278)
    they get shoved on the front line after firing blanks for a few weeks at a range in Devon lol.
    I like the way you display your utter lack of knowledge regarding army training.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Tony Blair was elected by his Sedgefield constituents, he was an MP and prime minister, with that comes benefits. If we don't like it, his constituents wouldn't elect him. We don't elect people in the armed forces do we, there is far greater accountability with the scenario you are talking about, stupid comparison.
    I'm pointing out that you happily pay for MP's to waste cash. Why not use it on a better cause than a MP's TV licence or car etc.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Police officers and Teachers are on roughly the same as those in the armed services, how can they afford housing more than someone serving as you postulated
    Again showing your ignorance. From the relevent websites:

    Police Constable on completion of initial training: £24,039
    Average secondary school teacher: £34,720
    Fully trained Soldier: £16,676

    Talk about bullfeces
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    Charmed i'm sure


    I like the way you display your utter lack of knowledge regarding army training.


    I'm pointing out that you happily pay for MP's to waste cash. Why not use it on a better cause than a MP's TV licence or car etc.


    Again showing your ignorance. From the relevent websites:

    Police Constable on completion of initial training: £24,039
    Average secondary school teacher: £34,720
    Fully trained Soldier: £16,676

    Talk about bullfeces
    Part of an MP's job involves expenses you imbicile
    travelling to and from Westminster
    accomodation in London when parliament is sitting

    Alot of the other expenses i'm not happy about but that is irreleant. Whatever an MP does or doesn't get, its not justification for some lackey in the forces to have a hand out either is it. What your basically saying is, your wasting money on this, when instead you could waste money on this - pathetic.

    Your figures seem totally skewed and nothing short of lies, some of those salaries are starting and some of those are from 20 years experience you idiot.
    I will give sources for my salaries, unlike you

    Police officer : £20,000 (starting) http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/officers/benefits.html

    Teacher : £20,627 (starting)
    http://www.tda.gov.uk/Recruit/lifeas...dbenefits.aspx

    Soldier : £16,227 (starting)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7437014.stm (Ministry of Defense)

    BUT
    Salary at age 18: £16,227
    Operational Allowance: (182 days) £2,380.56 (during six month tour of Afghanistan)
    Longer Separation Allowance: (182 days) £1,132.04
    Other perks including dental care and free eye tests: £510
    Financial assistance for learning costs: £2,175
    Subsidised living accommodation: £425.83
    Estimated annual employers' pension contribution: £3,148.04

    Total: £25,998.47

    ---Source: Ministry of Defence
    ---

    They earn far more you fool
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    (Original post by 122025278)
    Part of an MP's job involves expenses you imbicile
    Any reason for the insults or does it just make you feel better?

    (Original post by 122025278)
    travelling to and from Westminster
    accomodation in London when parliament is sitting
    Thousands of other people travel/have to stay in London much more often and they don't get expenses.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Alot of the other expenses i'm not happy about but that is irreleant. Whatever an MP does or doesn't get, its not justification for some lackey in the forces to have a hand out either is it. What your basically saying is, your wasting money on this, when instead you could waste money on this
    Explain why it is wasting?

    (Original post by 122025278)
    I will give sources for my salaries, unlike you
    Fair point:
    Police:
    http://www.police-information.co.uk/policepay.htm
    "The salaries listed below came into effect on 1 December 2007."

    Teacher:
    http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/managem...rformance/pay/

    Army:
    http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/2008payor.pdf

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Operational Allowance: (182 days) £2,380.56 (during six month tour of Afghanistan)
    So if you are a 6 month tour you get some extra money.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Longer Separation Allowance: (182 days) £1,132.04
    Dependant on marital status

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Financial assistance for learning costs: £2,175
    Dependant on if you have enough time off to take a course and then to only be used on the course.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Subsidised living accommodation: £425.83
    That is money you save. You make it seem like a extra cash bonus.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Total: £25,998.47
    Total when in barracks for a trained soldier:
    £16,227

    You then spend this on tax and kit that you don't get issued (along with accom and PAYD).

    (Original post by 122025278)
    They earn far more you fool
    Insults again?
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    Any reason for the insults or does it just make you feel better?


    Thousands of other people travel/have to stay in London much more often and they don't get expenses.


    Explain why it is wasting?


    Fair point:
    Police:
    http://www.police-information.co.uk/policepay.htm
    "The salaries listed below came into effect on 1 December 2007."

    Teacher:
    http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/managem...rformance/pay/

    Army:
    http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/2008payor.pdf


    So if you are a 6 month tour you get some extra money.


    Dependant on marital status


    Dependant on if you have enough time off to take a course and then to only be used on the course.


    That is money you save. You make it seem like a extra cash bonus.


    Total when in barracks for a trained soldier:
    £16,227

    You then spend this on tax and kit that you don't get issued (along with accom and PAYD).


    Insults again?
    The 646 MP's represent constituencies all over the country and have to travel to Westminster, even if you went 50 miles from central London, think how long that would take you to travel on a week day and 50 miles from London is what, Bedford? Reading? Thats nothing, most of the MP's would have to travel miles. I'm flabbergasted that you can't see the difference between MP's and the general public.

    It is waste because I'm a conservative and I believe in low government spending and lower taxes, which means any extras that need to be paid are nothing more than fiscal waste. If it was to buy an extra plane or a tank, that would be different, because that provides a benefit.

    Yes if you are away fighting and at risk of death from an IED you get some money, whereas if you are at the barracks in whatever shire county that may be, you get less money, shocking isn't it.

    If any other public servant wanted to go to university they wouldn't be subsidised for it and the argument that some of them may not want to is stupid anyway, its about taking your opportunities.

    Money you save not a cash bonus lol. Of course its a cash bonus where's your logic. Thats money that doesn't need to be spent on accomodation, if they didn't give you that it'd come out of your pay, seems like a cash bonus now doesn't it (I hope)

    Isn't that a given that some of it should be spent on tax like everyone else, by making that comment you must be differentiating between the salary of someone in the armed forces and the public, so they shouldn't be paying tax now either?
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    (Original post by 122025278)
    The 646 MP's represent constituencies all over the country and have to travel to Westminster, even if you went 50 miles from central London, think how long that would take you to travel on a week day and 50 miles from London is what, Bedford? Reading? Thats nothing, most of the MP's would have to travel miles. I'm flabbergasted that you can't see the difference between MP's and the general public.
    I guess you didn't hear about the London MP who was using her (his perhaps) travel allowance to buy and power an Aston Martin when she/he lived withing 20 minutes of Westminister.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    It is waste because I'm a conservative and I believe in low government spending and lower taxes, which means any extras that need to be paid are nothing more than fiscal waste. If it was to buy an extra plane or a tank, that would be different, because that provides a benefit.
    How does training someone up so they can get a better job and better the economy not provide a benifit? A benifit to whom by the way?

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Yes if you are away fighting and at risk of death from an IED you get some money, whereas if you are at the barracks in whatever shire county that may be, you get less money, shocking isn't it.
    I didn't say it was...

    (Original post by 122025278)
    If any other public servant wanted to go to university they wouldn't be subsidised for it and the argument that some of them may not want to is stupid anyway, its about taking your opportunities.
    It about you CO giving you time off to do a course. Time off that on current ops pace you often don't have.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Money you save not a cash bonus lol. Of course its a cash bonus where's your logic. Thats money that doesn't need to be spent on accomodation, if they didn't give you that it'd come out of your pay, seems like a cash bonus now doesn't it (I hope)
    I was pointing out that your figure of £25,998.47 was the original salary plus what you save on housing, food etc. You don't get money for it, that is money you save it is not an addition to your salary.

    (Original post by 122025278)
    Isn't that a given that some of it should be spent on tax like everyone else, by making that comment you must be differentiating between the salary of someone in the armed forces and the public, so they shouldn't be paying tax now either?
    No, they shouldn't to be honest. The council wouldn't be able to demand for tax if our lads and lasses hadn't fought for our fight to have a free government system.
 
 
 
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