Helena067
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what would you say to be the legal reasoning by Lord Atkin in the case of Donoghue v Stevenson?
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Audrey18
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(Original post by Helena067)
what would you say to be the legal reasoning by Lord Atkin in the case of Donoghue v Stevenson?
you might want to watch this playlist.

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Bitesizelaw
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ratio or obiter?
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OceaniaLight
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Atkin's neighbour principle's reasoning might be ratio decidendi since it formed the law of negligence.
I thought only lawyers and judges can define or draw out which particular part is ratio or obiter during the court process?
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Audrey18
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OceaniaLight

if you are studying or have studied at a good law university or taught by a good law lecturer you will know that for every legal judgment there are 18 descriptors that you have to learn about. once you have mastered those 18 descriptors then deciphering what an obiter or ratio will prove to be an effortless task.
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OceaniaLight
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(Original post by Audrey18)
OceaniaLight

if you are studying or have studied at a good law university or taught by a good law lecturer you will know that for every legal judgment there are 18 descriptors that you have to learn about. once you have mastered those 18 descriptors then deciphering what an obiter or ratio will prove to be an effortless task.
I am in my first year (part-time)... the reading for each university is not identical. No, my lecturer has not reached that unit yet. I am sure it exists somewhere in the module. So far for my assignments, I do not need to identify the ratio or obiter at this stage, but, I will check that out in advance.
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Audrey18
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(Original post by OceaniaLight)
I am in my first year (part-time)... the reading for each university is not identical. No, my lecturer has not reached that unit yet. I am sure it exists somewhere in the module. So far for my assignments, I do not need to identify the ratio or obiter at this stage, but, I will check that out in advance.
you are optimistic and that's a good thing. and no. it does not exist in the module and it's not found in the sub-par textbooks that law universities often recommend in their reading lists. go and ask your lecturer at the opportune time if he/she knows about the descriptors for legal judgments and get back to us here. we'll be waiting.
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Bitesizelaw
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(Original post by Audrey18)
you are optimistic and that's a good thing. and no. it does not exist in the module and it's not found in the sub-par textbooks that law universities often recommend in their reading lists. go and ask your lecturer at the opportune time if he/she knows about the descriptors for legal judgments and get back to us here. we'll be waiting.
Oh dear. I must be a poor lawyer. I have no idea what the 18 descriptors are!

I am not a 'tort' lawyer but I understood that the 'neighbour' principle is technically obiter in D v S itself .

Helenea 067; you need to decide how technical and detailed your answer should be. You haven't given contributors much to go on. You could write an essay on this or a paragraph.
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OceaniaLight
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(Original post by Audrey18)
you are optimistic and that's a good thing. and no. it does not exist in the module and it's not found in the sub-par textbooks that law universities often recommend in their reading lists. go and ask your lecturer at the opportune time if he/she knows about the descriptors for legal judgments and get back to us here. we'll be waiting.
I see. Audrey18, I assume you know the 18 descriptors. I am in my exam week, so asking any lecturer about this would certainly make me look like I am going off-topic. One of my lecturers finds asking side questions annoying. Will not ask until the Christmas holiday.

Would you be willing to share the 18 descriptors as you will not hear back from me until Christmas?
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Audrey18
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(Original post by OceaniaLight)
I see. Audrey18, I assume you know the 18 descriptors. I am in my exam week, so asking any lecturer about this would certainly make me look like I am going off-topic. One of my lecturers finds asking side questions annoying. Will not ask until the Christmas holiday.

Would you be willing to share the 18 descriptors as you will not hear back from me until Christmas?
i don't know the entire list. so what you should do is to check with your lecturer. if he doesn't know then please do tell me which uni you are in so that I can forewarn my friends in sixth form now about this. don't want my friends paying top money for these type of lecturers.
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IpsaLoquitur
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I'm keen to know the 18 descriptors if anyone has them, not something I was taught at Uni or have come across since either but it sounds very useful to know. My Google Fu has failed me, however.
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Audrey18
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(Original post by IpsaLoquitur)
I'm keen to know the 18 descriptors if anyone has them, not something I was taught at Uni or have come across since either but it sounds very useful to know. My Google Fu has failed me, however.
may i know which uni you graduated from?
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IpsaLoquitur
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(Original post by Audrey18)
may i know which uni you graduated from?
Cambridge for Undergrad.
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Bitesizelaw
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(Original post by IpsaLoquitur)
I'm keen to know the 18 descriptors if anyone has them, not something I was taught at Uni or have come across since either but it sounds very useful to know. My Google Fu has failed me, however.
I have never come across them either and I taught year one undergraduates at a mid-ranking law school for many years. Hopefully the majority of my students didn't feel that my teaching was a waste of their student loan fees. Audrey18 - please put us our of our misery. Where can we find them? I have access to many respected textbooks. I am genuinely interested to study them. Thanks
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Audrey18
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(Original post by IpsaLoquitur)
Cambridge for Undergrad.
One would think that the premier university which requires one to make two payments to both the University and it's college would hold high standards of teaching. Apparently not.

(Original post by Bitesizelaw)
I have never come across them either and I taught year one undergraduates at a mid-ranking law school for many years. Hopefully the majority of my students didn't feel that my teaching was a waste of their student loan fees. Audrey18 - please put us our of our misery. Where can we find them? I have access to many respected textbooks. I am genuinely interested to study them. Thanks
Unbelievable:eek: and none of the many respected textbooks you have access to made any mention about descriptors? and how have you been sieving through legal judgments all this while? I am indeed dumbfounded. So how is it that many of the students from African countries and the other Commonwealth countries who study English law via long distance studies actually are well-versed in this area? Perhaps the GDL students who often stalk me might want to contribute and be the 'light at the end of the tunnel'? Now's the chance. Grab it!

and while you're still contemplating whether to chime in or not, I'm in the midst of reading the report into the sexual abuse of 1600 girls in Rotherham by a group of Pakistani men which lasted for 16 years.
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IpsaLoquitur
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I... don't understand why you can't tell us if this is basic? You tell if something is ratio by seeing if it actually is necessary to the outcome of the case. If the case could have had the same outcome without the judge making that particular finding, it is obiter. That is how we sift through cases without access to this vaunted knowledge that you have but wont tell us about?

Bizarre.
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Bitesizelaw
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(Original post by IpsaLoquitur)
I... don't understand why you can't tell us if this is basic? You tell if something is ratio by seeing if it actually is necessary to the outcome of the case. If the case could have had the same outcome without the judge making that particular finding, it is obiter. That is how we sift through cases without access to this vaunted knowledge that you have but wont tell us about?

Bizarre.
Hi Audrey18.
I agree with IpsaLoquitur. As a Cambridge graduate, I don't think that he/she deserved such negative comments from an exalted and worshiped member of this support community (and, frankly, neither did I).

I am confident that I am able to ascertain the ratio of a case without the need for descriptors so I will now bow out of this discussion.
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