Pro life and pro death penalty?

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Reply 20

technik

englishstudent

I think we can miss off the "oxy".

aye...very productive to call moncal a moron. anything to add or just increasing your post count?

Reply 21

spk

technik

aye...very productive to call moncal a moron. anything to add or just increasing your post count?

Yes, it's self-evident enough as it is. :wink:

Reply 22

an Siarach

technik

aye...very productive to call moncal a moron. anything to add or just increasing your post count?

I thought it was uncalled for as well.

Reply 23

randdom

I am pro-choice and anti dealth penalty, I don't think that it is hypocritical at all. I don't consider the foetus to be alive until about the 5th month of pregnancy therefor abortion isn't killing a human per say but there is no denying that a person on death row is a human. I also think that the death penalty is hypocritical.

Just my oppinion.

Reply 24

Lawz-

randdom

It's per se. :smile:

Sorry to be that way!

Reply 25

randdom

Lawzzzzzz

It's per se. :smile:

Sorry to be that way!

Thats ok I had no idea how to spell it so I guessed :smile:

Reply 26

Lawz-

randdom

Thats ok I had no idea how to spell it so I guessed :smile:

Fair guess :wink:

Reply 27

Tyler Durden

Ok, well I apologise for making an unconstructive comment. I just feel that it must be hard for someone to be:

Moncal

Very pro life, Very pro death penalty.

So here goes the more constructive argument. If you take "pro life" as just that, a belief system which values the importance of human life, to be very pro death penalty seems strange.

What I find particularly odd/misguided (dare I say it - stupid) was the use of the word very. To have such strong sentiments which contradict each other is in my view the sign of somebody who has a rather mixed up view of these matters.

Reply 28

an Siarach

englishstudent

So here goes the more constructive argument. If you take "pro life" as just that, a belief system which values the importance of human life, to be very pro death penalty seems strange.

The terms should not be taken literally.

englishstudent

What I find particularly odd/misguided (dare I say it - stupid) was the use of the word very. To have such strong sentiments which contradict each other is in my view the sign of somebody who has a rather mixed up view of these matters.

The views do not contradict. Im vehemently anti death penalty but i do believe there are acts which deserve it - i simply wouldnt accept it because of the inherent possibility of error within the judiciary. As for being anti abortion somehow being incompatible with being pro death penalty simply think about it from his point of view: There is a big difference between executing a man who has spent a lifetime raping and murdering children and killing an unborn child.

Reply 29

technik

englishstudent

Ok, well I apologise for making an unconstructive comment. I just feel that it must be hard for someone to be:

So here goes the more constructive argument. If you take "pro life" as just that, a belief system which values the importance of human life, to be very pro death penalty seems strange.

What I find particularly odd/misguided (dare I say it - stupid) was the use of the word very. To have such strong sentiments which contradict each other is in my view the sign of somebody who has a rather mixed up view of these matters.

cant speak for moncals "very" myself...but my feeling is the child has no choice. it didnt decide to be created or decide who would parent it. the murderer for example made a concious decision.

im not pro-life for all. pro-life in the abortion context yes, but not as an unbending conviction.

Reply 30

Douglas

randdom

In the U.S., pro choice, means killing the fetus up to and including the 9th month.

Reply 31

an Siarach

Douglas

In the U.S., pro choice, means killing the fetus up to and including the 9th month.

Didnt know that. Im sickened.

Reply 32

randdom

Douglas

In the U.S., pro choice, means killing the fetus up to and including the 9th month.

On numerous threads I have said that I don't agree with abortion for "social" reasons after 3 months. I think that tests for genetic abnormalities should be carried about befor 4 and a half months and there shouldn't really be any abortions after that except for in extreme cricumstances (ie the baby will die a slow painfull death soon after birth and that is only discovered later on in pregnancy). I don't agree with abotion up to 9 months I don't think many people would.

I don't think that makes me any less pro choice.

Reply 33

Howard

Douglas

In the U.S., pro choice, means killing the fetus up to and including the 9th month.

Does it? Are you telling me that in ordinary circumstances a woman can decide to have an abortion one week before the child would be born naturally. I think you've got your facts wrong.

Reply 34

Tyler Durden

Howard

Does it? Are you telling me that in ordinary circumstances a woman can decide to have an abortion one week before the child would be born naturally. I think you've got your facts wrong.

Yeah and so do I.

Reply 35

technik

for pro choice people and anyone else...

where do you draw the line. at what stage does it become wrong to kill the embryo/foetus/child/whatever else u want to call it

Reply 36

spk

technik

for pro choice people and anyone else...

where do you draw the line. at what stage does it become wrong to kill the embryo/foetus/child/whatever else u want to call it

Late-stage terminations represent a tiny proportion of abortions - almost all are performed at less than 16 weeks and those that occur after 20 weeks are virtually always due to major medical reasons that only become apparent at that time.

Here's an interesting list of scientific views on when human life begins (personally, I go along with points 4 and 5):

1. The metabolic view. There is no point when life begins. The sperm cell and egg cell are as alive as any other organism.

2. The genetic view. A new individual is created at fertilization. This is when the genes from the two parents combine to form an individual with unique properties.

3. The embryological view. In humans, identical twinning can occur as late as day 12 pc. Such twinning produces two individuals with different lives. Even conjoined ("Siamese") twins can have different personalities. Thus, a single individuality is not fixed earlier than day 12. (In religious terms, the two individuals have different souls). Some medical texts consider the stages before this time as a "pre-embryonic". This view is expressed by scientists such as Renfree (1982) and Grobstein (1988) and has been endorsed theologically by Ford (1988), Shannon and Wolter (1990), and McCormick (1991), among others. (Such a view would allow contraception, "morning after pills", and contragestational agents, but not abortion after two weeks).

4. The neurological view. Our society has defined death as the loss of the cerebral EEG (electroencephalogram) pattern. Conversely, some scientists have thought that the acquisition of the human EEG (at about 27 weeks) be defined as when a human life has begun. This view has been put forth most concretely by Morowitz and Trefil (1992). (This view and the ones following would allow mid-trimester abortions).

5. The ecological/technological view. This view sees the human life as beginning when it can exist separately from its maternal biological environment. The natural limit of viability occurs when the lungs mature, but technological advances can now enable a premature infant to survive at about 25 wks gestation. (This is the view currently operating in many states. Once a fetus can be potentially independent, it cannot be aborted).

6. The immunological view. This view sees human life as beginning when the organism recognizes the distinction between self and non-self. In humans, this occurs around the time of birth.

7. The integrated physiological view. This sees human life as beginning when it has become independent of the mother and has its own functioning circulatory system, alimentary system, and respiratory system. This is the traditional birthday when the baby is born into the world and the umbilical cord is cut.

http://zygote.swarthmore.edu/intro5.html

Reply 37

Sam2k

NDGAARONDI

What an oxymoron.

How so? The term pro life in this case refers to abortion. I think that Abortion is wrong so I am pro life. Pro death penalty is self explanatory. The bible teaches capital punishment. Therefore I am pro capital punishment. And from a purely logical standpoint, it is more practical.

Reply 38

spk

Moncal

And Jesus's new covenant didn't supercede such punishments?

Please explain how it's more practical.

Reply 39

Sam2k

Howard

Does it? Are you telling me that in ordinary circumstances a woman can decide to have an abortion one week before the child would be born naturally. I think you've got your facts wrong.