Is Islamophobia rooted in racism? Watch

Arran90
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Have a read of this article and tell me what you think:

https://5pillarsuk.com/2018/12/04/th...ms-not-causes/

My own stance is that Jahangir Mohammed is more or less right and the APPG on British Muslims has made errors of judgement.

I can't help wondering if the APPG used the sociologists definition of racism rather than the man on the street definition or racism as a basis for their definition of Islamophobia

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...php?p=86332054
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DiddyDecAlt
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It can be but to assume this as the default position is fallacious.

"Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness"
The definition actually fails define Islamophobia and uses words such as "Muslimness" which can't even be found in a dictionary. It further fails to differentiate between valid criticism of the religion and undue attacks on the followers.

Would targeting non stunned halal slaughter be considered Islamophobia, even though there are very real issues surrounding animal welfare? Under this definition, yes.
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Sharmarko
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I don't think Islamophobia is rooted in racism; rather racism and Islamophobia are rooted by a deeper worry - the universal fear of the unknown.

It makes sense biologically, early humans survived when they were cautious of new nearby tribes or settlements. New can be dangerous. New is a biological trigger for worry.


However, in our modern society, our primitive brains haven't "updated" our thinking to fit with our rapidly changing environment, where different cultures and ideas become increasingly connected. Perhaps this is the reason why many today suffer with social anxieties, especially when many of them are irrational (yet understandable and commonly acceptable) fears. Fear of public speaking, fear of going outside, fear of socialising...

When 80-year-old Ted from down the street picks up his daily newspaper and sees the words 'Halal', 'Hijab', 'Allah (Swt)' mixed in with negative connotations, he is socially learnt to associate this new = bad, ergo Muslims = bad. It's easy money for social media to create a "common enemy" for clicks and attention, and Muslims just happen to fit the bill. In an alternative universe, the Catholics would have been seen as "new" or "the dangerous enemy". Hell, the Jews were already made the common enemy via propaganda before.


But perhaps I am just being pedantic.
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Arran90
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I see Islamophobia and racism (according to the man on the street definition) as parallel because:

Hostility towards Islam and Muslims is a result of a political, theological, and foreign policy dimension to Islam that is independent of race and skin colour.

However, it is possible that Islamophobia is rooted in racism according to the sociologists definition of racism as religion is a factor that can create an out-group in society.
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YaliaV
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Does something have to be linked to race in order to be valid? I’ve seen homophobic abuse being labelled as racism, which is silly. Islam is not a race and there’s no need to make it a race. There are also valid concerns about the way Islam treats minority groups and the obvious extremist element; very few people are concerned about Sikhs or Buddhists.
Last edited by YaliaV; 1 month ago
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Arran90
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I would appreciate comments from Muslims.

The APPG may have cocked up on a definition of Islamophobia but I find it cause for concern that both the MCB and MEND are pushing for the APPG definition to become a legal definition.

I believe that a bad or misleading definition will cause more harm than no definition at all.
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chazwomaq
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I agree with OP and the article - Islamophobia is not necessarily racism (although it could be in particular cases). This seems self evident as a religion or ideology is not a race. Would a prejudice against a white Muslim be racist? How could you explain someone who is prejudiced against (Asian) Muslims but not Sikhs?

An interesting section of the APPG report caught my eye:

The Runnymede Trust offered a short and long definition of Islamophobia. The short definition is:

“Islamophobia is anti-Muslim racism.”

The long definition is:


“Islamophobia is any distinction, exclusion, or restriction towards, or preference against, Muslims (or those perceived to be Muslims) that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political,
economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.”
It seems pretty clear to me these definitions are not the same. If you try to redefine racism as a prejudice against any group (whether racial or not) you're just twisting words and watering down real racism.
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Arran90
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I believe the Runnymead trust has made a serious error by using racism because Islam is not a (biological) race. They came up with a definition of Islamophobia back in 1997 that is absolutely appalling.

The race relations community and the political left appear to have handled Muslims as being a racial minority rather than a religious group, and ignored the existence of white Muslims, as a convenience factor. White Muslims are not officially BAME.
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looloo2134
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(Original post by YaliaV)
Does something have to be linked to race in order to be valid? I’ve seen homophobic abuse being labelled as racism, which is silly. Islam is not a race and there’s no need to make it a race. There are also valid concerns about the way Islam treats minority groups and the obvious extremist element; very few people are concerned about Sikhs or Buddhists.
On my local high street their a group of white British Muslims guys ranting about Islam they stand their all day handing out leaflets none of them have a job or go to college/university or do anything to help society. They just turn people against Islam even once who don't care about Islam or watch the news.

I personally have concerns Buddhism and view that some Buddhist have on disabled people. I also have concerns about the caste system in Sikhism and the treatment of women. But the Sikhs/Buddhists have never as far as I know have never done an attack in Britain which most people are scared of.
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CTLeafez
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(Original post by grucl)
If islam as a religion was to disappear from human knowledge right now would the world become a better place?
A very interesting thought...

I’d argue the Islamic world has provided us with benefits. In 1500s, the Islamic world were the front runners of medical advancements, compared to the dark ages of Europe

Although, this could be argued to have occurred before Islam became the primary religion of the region
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looloo2134
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(Original post by CTLeafez)
A very interesting thought...

I’d argue the Islamic world has provided us with benefits. In 1500s, the Islamic world were the front runners of medical advancements, compared to the dark ages of Europe

Although, this could be argued to have occurred before Islam became the primary religion of the region
The first doctors nurses sciences etc were monks and nuns. Even today monks and nuns are some of the best teachers.
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Mike172
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(Original post by grucl)
If islam as a religion was to disappear from human knowledge right now would the world become a better place?
Yes, absolutely. Without a shadow of a doubt.
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Arran90
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(Original post by grucl)
If islam as a religion was to disappear from human knowledge right now would the world become a better place?
This is completely off topic!
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Arran90
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(Original post by nutz99)
At this point in time definitely. There is no other religion that is creating so much friction with others and within their own. The world would be a safer and more peaceful place.
My own view of history is that there has been a long drawn out war between Christian Europe (and later the US) and the Islamic world on a bedrock of political power. Christian Europe saw itself as the successor to the Western Roman Empire and is faced with competition through an expanding Islamic world that was a powerful political and economic force.

Jahangir Mohammed states "Hatred of Islam and Muslims has always been politically and religiously generated and dates to well before the Crusades. This hatred is rooted in a specifically European and Christian reaction to the rise of Islam as a religious and political movement that challenged Western and Christian hegemony".

It's possible that the Holy Roman Empire could only have been created by the previous missionary work of Boniface / Wynfrith in Germany whilst under the protection of the army of Charles Martel.

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php ?t=6257544

Therefore Islamophobia could have its roots in Boniface, not racism.
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by Arran90)
Have a read of this article and tell me what you think:

https://5pillarsuk.com/2018/12/04/th...ms-not-causes/

My own stance is that Jahangir Mohammed is more or less right and the APPG on British Muslims has made errors of judgement.

I can't help wondering if the APPG used the sociologists definition of racism rather than the man on the street definition or racism as a basis for their definition of Islamophobia

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...php?p=86332054
How being against a certain religion can be racist? Have you confused terms of biology and culture?
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Arran90
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
I don’t see why being scared of an ideology notorious for violent terror attacks and caliphates is a bad thing
The violent terror attacks only began in the 1990s. I suspect that not many people on TSR can remember a time when Islam or Muslims and terrorism were not used in the same sentence, and terrorism was carried out by the IRA and non-Muslim nutjobs.
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Arran90
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
How being against a certain religion can be racist? Have you confused terms of biology and culture?
The APPG appears to have done so, but they could have used the sociologists definition of racism.
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AngryRedhead
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(Original post by Arran90)
The violent terror attacks only began in the 1990s. I suspect that not many people on TSR can remember a time when Islam or Muslims and terrorism were not used in the same sentence, and terrorism was carried out by the IRA and non-Muslim nutjobs.
That is true but as far as I’m aware the IRA have yet to attempt to take over multiple countries, commit ethnic genocide and rape and engage multiple countries in a long and bloody war
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by Arran90)
The APPG appears to have done so, but they could have used the sociologists definition of racism.
Race is a term from biology. I don't see a point in making mess in terminology. Either someone hates certain races, or cultures, or religions.

Personally I do not think that Islamophobia is entirely unreasonable, however I do not have problems with moderate Muslims. The problem is, how do you distinguish good people from idiots who plan to stab you at your back.
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Arran90
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
That is true but as far as I’m aware the IRA have yet to attempt to take over multiple countries, commit ethnic genocide and rape and engage multiple countries in a long and bloody war
It really is unwise and disingenuous to tar over 1 billion people with the same brush as used on a small handful of militant individuals who are involved in deviant and nefarious outfits.

You could argue that a cold war has existed between the Islamic world and Christian Europe that at times has become a hot war continuously since the days of Charles Martel.
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