If income tax were optional (opt-out), what would our countries look/be like? Watch

EtonWorldDoppler
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In this hypothetical scenario, income tax (and national insurance) becomes optional (opt-out).

What happens to the country?
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abcthe123
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(Original post by EtonWorldDoppler)
In this hypothetical scenario, income tax (and national insurance) becomes optional (opt-out).

What happens to the country?
The free market steps in and does what it does.
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artful_lounger
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Probably a lot like the US, where extremely wealthy individuals essentially can and do opt out of it by lobbying politicans to fight against higher marginal tax rates, and avoid paying taxes by engaging in ostensible philanthropy up to the point where it is tax deductible. For reference, the US has crumbling infrastructure, enormous wealth disparity and a very large proportion of the country living in poverty.

(Original post by abcthe123)
The free market steps in and does what it does.
i.e. nothing.
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abcthe123
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
Probably a lot like the US, where extremely wealthy individuals essentially can and do opt out of it by lobbying politicans to fight against higher marginal tax rates, and avoid paying taxes by engaging in ostensible philanthropy up to the point where it is tax deductible. For reference, the US has crumbling infrastructure, enormous wealth disparity and a very large proportion of the country living in poverty.



i.e. nothing.
Yet

a) the us has higher taxes than the uk
b) the us poverty rate is actually lower than the uk's
c) 6 of the wealthiest cities in the world are in the US
d) the us has the third highest wages in the world
e) the us's infrastructure rating is right in line with the uk's according to the world bank
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by abcthe123)
Yet

a) the us has higher taxes than the uk
b) the us poverty rate is actually lower than the uk's
c) 6 of the wealthiest cities in the world are in the US
d) the us has the third highest wages in the world
e) the us's infrastructure rating is right in line with the uk's according to the world bank

you're stupid lol
The US has lower income tax than the UK, which I know because I'm a US citizen living in the UK, and need to pay taxes in the UK while filing for taxes in the US - because they don't duplicate taxes for the same things, and US income tax is so much lower than UK income tax, I never have to pay tax in the US (just file for it).

Having a handful of wealthy cities doesn't mean anything if the majority of the population does not live in those cities, nor does it mean anything when large proportions of the population in those cities live in poverty. The US has the second highest rate of poverty of "rich" developed countries. The UK was seventh. Beyond that, literally none of what you stated otherwise is true and is very easy to fact check and see that it's all false. There was literally a news report last year where the UN's goals for developing countries were applied against US infrastructure and it failed on most of them.

I'm not sure what you're hoping to gain from lying about this, but lying to someone who was born in the US, previously lived there, and lives in the UK, who thus has lived experience of both countries, is definitely not a good look for you since it's immediately apparent to me that none of what you've said is true. Moreover as above these are easily checked against published data.
Last edited by artful_lounger; 1 month ago
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by EtonWorldDoppler)
In this hypothetical scenario, income tax (and national insurance) becomes optional (opt-out).

What happens to the country?
Other things will get taxed.

The UK tax system taxes income much more heavily than capital acquisition. Our consumption taxes are low by international standards.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
The US has lower income tax than the UK, which I know because I'm a US citizen living in the UK, and need to pay taxes in the UK while filing for taxes in the US - because they don't duplicate taxes for the same things, and US income tax is so much lower than UK income tax, I never have to pay tax in the US (just file for it).
But you don't pay US sales taxes which are imposed on a far wider range of goods than VAT and funds much of State expenditure or US property taxes that funds a much higher percentage of US municipal expenditure than Council Tax.
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abcthe123
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
The US has lower taxes than the UK, which I know because I'm a US citizen living in the UK, and need to pay taxes in the UK while filing for taxes in the US - because they don't duplicate taxes for the same things, and US taxes are so much lower than UK taxes, I never have to pay tax in the US (just file for it).

Having a handful of wealthy cities doesn't mean anything if the majority of the population does not live in those cities, nor does it mean anything when large proportions of the population in those cities live in poverty. The US has the second highest rate of poverty of "rich" developed countries. The UK was seventh. Beyond that, literally none of what you stated otherwise is true and is very easy to fact check and see that it's all false. There was literally a news report last year where the UN's goals for developing countries were applied against US infrastructure and it failed on most of them.

I'm not sure what you're hoping to gain from lying about this, but lying to someone who was born in the US, previously lived there, and lives in the UK, who thus has lived experience of both countries, is definitely not a good look for you since it's immediately apparent to me that none of what you've said is true. Moreover as above these are easily checked against published data.
Tell me exactly what I'm lying about. What you're saying is patently false.

a) the minimum income tax rate in the UK is 0% on incomes below £12k. The US minimum income tax rate is 10%.
b) corporation tax in the UK is 19% and in the US it's 21% with up to an extra 12% depending on your state.
c) according to the global infrastructure index 2018, 33% of the UK say they are dissatisfied with their country's infrastructure compared to 32% of the US.
d) the only available data shows that the 15% of the UK live below the poverty line compared to 11% of the US. I don't know what you're reading but you can search that up yourself.

Please, please tell me what else I'm supposedly lying about. You're still an idiot.
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
But you don't pay US sales taxes which are imposed on a far wider range of goods than VAT and funds much of State expenditure or US property taxes that funds a much higher percentage of US municipal expenditure than Council Tax.
Yes but sales tax is a) determined on the state level and b) considerably lower than VAT anyway. Additionally the way that municipal taxes and zones are structured in the US engenders the great wealth disparity that exists, rather than seeks to balance it (which should be aim of such taxes).

Even for something like water and sanitation, which the US has a high average quality for, is extremely varied with great disparities for many economically underdeveloped regions - there were dozens of areas under boil-water notices this past year, and of course the very highly publicized Flint, MN situation.
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