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    (Original post by imtired)
    Wow this is probably the worst debate i've seen so far, i'm surprised people who aren't trolls are still here.
    yeh but i personally wouldn't even call it a debate.
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    (Original post by dunnoaUSERname)
    yeh but i personally wouldn't even call it a debate.
    What's to debate? Someone thinks that a first century Muslim fundamentalist state was more tolerant of religious minorities than modern Britain...
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    (Original post by pretz)
    What's to debate? Someone thinks that a first century Muslim fundamentalist state was more tolerant of religious minorities than modern Britain...
    ah I see, so as a result we should start insulting them? ridiculing their beliefs etc?

    sorry, but I wasn't aware about the way things worked here. I think there should be some standards atleast...but that's probably just me.
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    Now you know
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    A few points:

    (Original post by pretz)
    What on earth are you talking about? How do you think Abu Hamza got here? A man who preaches for the destruction of Europe was given asylum here from Muslim regimes, he would be deported to Jordan.
    ----> Abu Hamza is a real lunatic. He should be deported.

    ----> The UK is one of the most tolerant places in the world today.

    (Original post by Pretz)
    In the West we don't want even those who preach for our destruction to be tortured.
    ----> Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay exist. Do you deny this?

    (Original post by Pretz)
    What rubbish, jizya was a punitive form of religious apartheid aimed at making the non-Muslim populations in Islamic occupied areas into Muslims.

    How would you like it if tomorrow the UK passed a bill requiring Muslims to pay extra protection money? Would that make the UK more enlightened?
    ----> Jizya was a tax that contributed to the social security of people (Muslim & non-Muslim). Muslims too had to pay a tax (called Zakat) - 2.5% of their wealth. Because Muslim lands were theocracies they could only enforce this tax on the category Muslim/non-Muslim. It was by no means like apartheid and was never meant to force conversion.

    ----> You will of course be able to contrast this with the Spanish Inquisition and Conquistadors and also with British Colonialism.

    ----> Also, do you know how much it costs to get British Citizenship? Although this isn't strictly only for Muslims but hopefully you get the idea. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

    (Original post by Pretz)
    Ah, another Muslim who equates homosexuality and drinking with things like slavery. Lovely. It's worth noting that slavery was ended (more or less, it still carries on today) in the Islamic world only because of Western opposition to it.
    ----> You also have to understand that the so-called "Islamic" countries are quite un-Islamic. None truly follow what Muhammad (SAW) taught. There is a massive presence of political "Islam". Take Saudi Arabia for example: the only "truly Islamic" country that prides itself in its careful preservation of Islam. Yet, the reality is that non-nationals are spat upon (one of my friends had stones thrown at him), "maidservants" are raped and molested and there can be no political opposition to King Abdullah due to an extremely high population of government spies.

    ----> Lastly, you claim Islam is an ideology. If so what is its main idea(s)?
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    (Original post by becca2389)
    From experiences in my home country, there's a lot of anti-Muslim feeling simply because of 7/7 and all the images of militant Muslims on the media. I've more than once been highly offended when people have declared, quite unashamedly, that "all Muslims are terrorists". This is probably do with a lack of education...the Muslim community here is small and quite insular so no-one has any perception of Muslims to draw on rather than what they see on the news.

    In London, the perception is a whole lot more positive. The people I associate with are sensible enough to realise that the Muslim militant comes from a very small group of extremists.
    And I'm offended when people are offended on other people's behalf.
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    Being a muslim is like being pregnant, you can't be moderately pregnant can you?
    Covering the face is a load of nonsense that people came up with. The Qur'an only mentions the hair (neck + ears), arms and legs.

    To be honest this thread is useless in a sense that everyone will try to sound like the good guy that treats everyone equally. As most of the Muslims in the UK know, we are faced with discrimination everyday whether minor or major.

    As for Muslims not socialising with caucasians, many probably won't for a couple of reasons:
    1. They have been through a lot before when dealing with caucasians.
    2. The way of life. Drinking is becoming more and more part of the western culture and a Muslim wouldn't want to be around when that happens. Other things include sex and so on.
    Well if Muslims don't want to live our western lifestyle then why the hell do they come to our country and then complain about perception when they have nothing to do with us anyway because of the way they segregate themselves.

    I don't give a **** about skin colour i'm just fed up of feeling intimidated by massive groups of muslims when if they were actually prepared to intergrate in this country (its nothing to do with drinking or sex you can just say you don't do it) there would be a lot more tolerance and less intimidation and prejudice both ways
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    (Original post by nafisa™)
    Ugh... have some respect.:mad:
    Nah, cant be bothered.

    LA ILLAH IL ALLAH! MUHAMMED RASUL ILLAH!
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    Islamic republic of Britain. It could happen...
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    lol it should happen...It will happen....
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    (Original post by pretz)
    'Gayism'? Are you 13? Anyway, feel free to leave this country and go live in a country a few hundred years of social progression behind the UK. There are plenty of them in the Muslim world.
    lol oh ye i forgot I wrote that...nyway i was just trying to spark things up by saying something racy....but u have to admit, gayism isnt some word kids would you! wtf!

    Oh and you got it wrong, there are plenty of them in the Arabic world, not muslim world; the muslim world no longer exists
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    (Original post by 2026)
    :toofunny:



    Turkey is a secular democracy, and the hijab is not 'banned'. It's prohibited in public offices, similar to France. And a beard is banned in Turkey? What an idiot lol.



    Yeah, right.
    i though that was quite funny actually, but u didnt say anything racy!! AAAHHH damn youuuuuuu! I was hoping for some major ****age!

    ANd also, HOW is that different from being banned? its not the detail or technicality that matters here, its the basic objection to a part of islam, therefore not islamic therefore secular 'democracy' like u said...

    And im fairly sure about the beard part! Oh no wait, i think only if you work for the govt. (ie public job) then you can't...trust me, im right about this is some form!!!
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    (Original post by Paxdax)
    And I'm offended when people are offended on other people's behalf.
    I'm not offended on their behalf. I'm offended because I don't like intolerance in any shape or form. Call me sensitive, but intolerance is ingrained in my society and I just don't like it. The catholic/protestant thing is bad enough...the Irish don't need to start on all other religions too.
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    wow!! many posts I couldn't read all of them so excuse me if I repeat some points.
    But May I please ask that anyone who isn't muslim or is not sure about the info he/she is giving not to answer, because this could create even more confusion and misconceptions to other posters.

    So as I mentioned previously I live in a an arab/ muslim country. And where I come from Muslims/ Christians/ and all different types of religions live peacefully and in harmony.

    Somone asked of our views of the west. To answer that question, muslims/ arabs in general don't have a specific views about the west. Infact you'd be quite surprized at the degree of westernization you would notice if you visit a an arab/ muslim country. We go to international mixed schools, have friends of many different nationalities and religions, we have bars, and cafes, and most pools are mixed sex. You'd be surprized at the amount of teenagers who date, we too have proms and go to concerts, we watch american and british T.V shows, we dress fashionably and have very good designers, most females work in private and public sectors, we have Ipods and enjoy music, we too spend hours on the internet. So our views of the west ? we have no specfific views of the west when we are living a very simillar lifestyle!!!! Maybe the west is more culturaly free and less conservative than we are.

    It is only when muslims live in the West that they do fthese these problems, becuase people are judgemental and the media has created this view of the muslims that is very hard to change and which is based on a group of extremists. I am guessing this probably leads muslims to feel discriminated and left out, and the need to live in some sort of community arises.

    someone posted that most wouldn't wnat to live next to a muslim neighbour! I don't get why is that tue, since living next to a muslim is no different than living next to any sort of other neighbour. We don't have any specifiec rituals to follow around neighbourhoods

    What do you guys mean by racism against the white people. Who said that muslims are black people, not all muslims come form bangladesh you know! Have you been to egypt, syria, lebanon, jordna , turkey??? Maybe I missunderstood!
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    (Original post by pretz)
    I respect the rights of human beings, not pretend fairies in the sky and their old books.
    what about the human beings who believe in what you call the pretend fairies in the sky and their old books? you know those too get insulted , and they too have the right to believe what ever they want and not be bothered by ppl like you.

    Why can't we just have a peacfull and adult debate that has no insults and comes up with something useful. why do we always have to end everything with hurt feelings and more hatred why? Why do we always agree to disagree.
    Please be more mature and spare us your unappreciated sarcasim. This thread isn't an I HATE MUSLIMS THRED!! It is simply a thread to dicuss the preception of Muslims in Britian.

    you know maybe if you tried being nice and objective you would learn things about other religions and faiths that could sound rational and productive. Maybe you would find an explanation to what may seem like an unreasonable behavior. Maybe you'd learn not to judge majorities by minorities!!!!
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    (Original post by dandon_30)
    what about the human beings who believe in what you call the pretend fairies in the sky and their old books? you know those too get insulted , and they too have the right to believe what ever they want and not be bothered by ppl like you.
    My freedom is more important than your faith. Much, much more important.

    Why can't we just have a peacfull and adult debate that has no insults and comes up with something useful. why do we always have to end everything with hurt feelings and more hatred why? Why do we always agree to disagree.
    Please be more mature and spare us your unappreciated sarcasim. This thread isn't an I HATE MUSLIMS THRED!! It is simply a thread to dicuss the preception of Muslims in Britian.
    We (as in non-religious people) don't hate Muslims (or rather religious people). We just consider their beliefs as delusions.

    you know maybe if you tried being nice and objective you would learn things about other religions and faiths that could sound rational and productive. Maybe you would find an explanation to what may seem like an unreasonable behavior. Maybe you'd learn not to judge majorities by minorities!!!!
    Having an 'unoffending' discussion with religion is like kindly asking a brick wall to move.


    La Illah il Paxdax. Internet rasul Illah!
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    (Original post by trefusis128)
    Letting in immigrants, fleeing for peace,
    but when they get here, all they do is fleece
    off of our government. While they sit on their arse,
    hard working people, pay for their cars,
    and their big houses, and anything else,
    they cant be arsed to work for, and pay for themselves.
    Hehe, that's mostly bs .

    (Original post by trefusis128)
    People like us. And it’s these people who just want to shout:
    ’Come in and make a difference, or get the **** out!’
    Agree with that ^^

    (Original post by trefusis128)
    Stand up and shout;
    Shout for your pride of this beautiful country,
    "Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori"
    Apart from it not rhyming, and saying "Shout for your pride of this beautiful country, it is sweet and fitting to die for your country." Which doesn't quite make sense at all...I agree with a little, though it seems to be written by an idiot most of the time.

    And as for a few of the muslim people in this thread saying "they have nothing against homosexuality" are you not in the minority? How many muslim majority countries have laws against it?
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    'jizya was a punitive punishment for non-muslims'. Under Islam the Muslims pay 2.5% of their wealth. The non-muslims payed a fixed amount depending on what their savings are (i.e. modern day equivalence to income band), those of you who read into this and are good at maths realise the jizya paid by non-muslims is less than the zakah paid by muslims, so in an islamic theocracy the muslims pay more 'tax'. Secondly tolerance is not a new phenomenon, like we like to think. It existed in early muslim empire (uve all seen kingdom of heaven, and this was true Saladin offered a safe passage to every christian), a few hundred years ago look at the ottomans, who gave every religion there own courts (wikipedia millet system). But in Europe (modern day) many compare the treatment of Muslims like that of Jews pre WW2, remember the holocaust didnt occur overnight, in fact in the 1930s in Germany there was mass protests against discriminating against Jews, but a sustained propoganda war was waged against them. If u look more recently the same occured in Bosnia and Kosovo with the serbs.
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    Well, a lot of them are *****, but a lot of them are nice guys too, so I would score them along with every other ethnic group.
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    No one can argue your view on a religion. You obviously don't believe in my religion as you don't follow it. Therefore, voicing disagreement is pretty pointless and will lead to arguments. Debated are always welcome though, which is the only useful thing really. How is a cartoon where the main purpose is to incite anger is going to be useful?

    Saying go "back" can be referred to as discrimination and is used by most BNP supporters. You do realise that a lot of Muslims in the UK/Europe have no other home and they were born and raised here and are part of the country. It is the same as telling American to go back where they came from. It is indirectly saying "You are not accepted as part of the community and you don't belong".
    I take it you are refering to the infamous danish cartoons. They were not designed to cause offence but to be funny as most cartoons are.

    Well if you disagree with freedom of speach then most likely you will not be "accepted as part of the community". Otherwise you are perfectly welcome. The point of my comment is that if you don't like freedom of speach don't live in a country that has freedom of speach.
 
 
 
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