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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    I have yet to see anyone that actually found them funny to be honest. And if they were designed to be funny then the guy has a pretty bad sense of humour.

    It wouldn't be much of a debate of we disagree, but disagreeing has some etiquette and some people seem to have forgotten about it (or didn't know of it) and started to throw insults.

    What I don't understand is this: anyone can complain about the situation in his country and how he wants it to change for the better, but when a Muslim does it it's always the same reply of "Go back" or "Don't come here" knowing that they were born and raised here.
    I would agree they were pretty crap cartoons but that does not mean they were designed to cause offense.

    Thats because often, from what i have seen anyway, muslims try and compare the west to Islamic countries saying we should do it the way the Islamic states do.
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    You think people don't need religion? Just wait for the expected 6 million immigrants from the indian subcontinent over the next 20 years.
    No, i don't.
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    (Original post by pretz)
    Who is we? The indigenous population of Britain is becoming secular but if anything second generation Muslims in this country are more religious than their parents.

    Factor into this the high Muslim birth rate and it isn't hard to see a Britain where Mosque and State are intricately linked. In much of Britain this is already the case.
    Which is another reason muslims seen isolated from everyone else. They are arguably the biggest group that are going against the trends in secularism.
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    (Original post by 2026)
    Actually the majority of women do not wear the hijab. The number of women who wear the hijab stands at around 30-40%. A further 30% wear a headscarf, though this has very little to do with Islam - it's a traditional, culture dress code. Secondly, do not be so arrogant as to claim a monopoly over the interpretation of Islam - especially since the Kuran is largely quite on the issue of the hijab. There are many Islamic scholars and imams (albeit a minority) who do no believe that covering one's head is compulsory.
    Oh please don't make me laugh.....

    Majority of the Muslim women in the world believe that the scarf/hijab is compulsory. Are you implying we are all wrong? We don't blindly follow the Holy Quran. We look at evidence...and the evidence clearly suggests that yes the scarf is compulsory.

    The niqab/veil however isn't compulsory thus we have differences of opinions among many Muslims. I for one don't think the veil is required.

    But to claim the hijab isn't a requirement........is laughable! Give me evidence that suggests it isn't...and I can guarantee that I'll prove you wrong.
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    (Original post by mire)
    Oh well sorry for not being in Turkey, I was busy having a life in Spain. I was however told by several people that most women in Istanbul and Ankara won't cover up, and that's why I said it. And I didn't say you don't know a thing, no need to say that.
    Sorry if I came across harsh.

    The reason why these women in Istanbul don't cover up...is because wearing the scarf at the workplace or at univeristy/college/school is against the law. If they choose to wear the scarf...they are physically forced to take it off.
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    (Original post by CJ99)
    I would agree they were pretty crap cartoons but that does not mean they were designed to cause offense.

    Thats because often, from what i have seen anyway, muslims try and compare the west to Islamic countries saying we should do it the way the Islamic states do.
    I'd have to disagree with you. Almost every muslim in the west knows that the so called "Islamic" country is far from Islam. They are simply trying to make people respect their beliefs. If a person chooses not to play football with you then you don't go and tackle them, do you? :P The same applies to them, so they can't tackle you either. Then everyone is happy. Unless of course that person is a very good player and you wanted him to be in your team...

    What were we talking about again?
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    (Original post by Calikusu)
    Majority of the Muslim women in the world believe that the scarf/hijab is compulsory. Are you implying we are all wrong?
    Democratic fallacy.

    (Original post by Calikusu)
    We don't blindly follow the Holy Quran. We look at evidence...and the evidence clearly suggests that yes the scarf is compulsory.
    Elaborate on this evidence you refer to.

    (Original post by Calikusu)
    The niqab/veil however isn't compulsory thus we have differences of opinions among many Muslims. I for one don't think the veil is required.
    Oh so the hijab is required, but the niqab is not? That's probably because you do not wish to wear the niqab but don't mind wearing the hijab.

    (Original post by Calikusu)
    But to claim the hijab isn't a requirement........is laughable! Give me evidence that suggests it isn't...and I can guarantee that I'll prove you wrong.
    You are the one who claims that it's a requirement so the duty is upon you to prove it to be. There are many Islamic scholars who believe that the hijab is not a requirement, so to say that their stance is 'laughable' just goes to show how simple a mind you possess. The Quran insists modesty, but does not mention the hijab.

    Now, unless you're going to provide a proper response, do not bother replying. Your 'oh that's laughable' replies are ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Calikusu)
    Sorry if I came across harsh.

    The reason why these women in Istanbul don't cover up...is because wearing the scarf at the workplace or at univeristy/college/school is against the law. If they choose to wear the scarf...they are physically forced to take it off.
    So all the women in Turkey who do not wear the headscarf do so because the hijab is prohibited in public offices? Pfft. Why don't you make a comment that is at least partially accurate and not drenched in gross bias.

    Secondly, no one is physically forced to uncover their hair. If they personally refuse to do so, they are merely not permitted into e.g. a university.
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    (Original post by 2026)
    You are the one who claims that it's a requirement so the duty is upon you to prove it to be. There are many Islamic scholars who believe that the hijab is not a requirement, so to say that their stance is 'laughable' just goes to show how simple a mind you possess. The Quran insists modesty, but does not mention the hijab.
    I'm afraid you are wrong on this. It is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that a woman should cover her hair and it specifically says how.
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    I'd have to disagree with you. Almost every muslim in the west knows that the so called "Islamic" country is far from Islam. They are simply trying to make people respect their beliefs. If a person chooses not to play football with you then you don't go and tackle them, do you? :P The same applies to them, so they can't tackle you either. Then everyone is happy. Unless of course that person is a very good player and you wanted him to be in your team...
    What I find interesting is that many Muslims I've met do, as you say, distance themselves with the 'Islamic' regimes in Iran, Saudi Arabia and etc. In fact, most Muslims I've spoken to canot refer to any 'Islamic' state that has existed in history. Yet, many of these people still reject the separation of State and religion which I find quite interesting. They cannot refer to a decent example of an Islamic state, yet still desire it in some shape or form. I have two close mates who have strictly socialist views (one of whom actually identifies himself as a communist), yet they recognise that history is not on their side and that communism has never worked in practice. I wish that others would do so as well and stop striving for abstract notions.
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    I'm afraid you are wrong on this. It is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that a woman should cover her hair and it specifically says how.
    And which verse is this?
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    (Original post by Calikusu)
    Majority of the Muslim women in the world believe that the scarf/hijab is compulsory. Are you implying we are all wrong?
    Truth is not subject to majority opinion.
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    (Original post by 2026)
    And which verse is this?
    24:31
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    24:31
    This verse?

    "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands".
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    I'd have to disagree with you. Almost every muslim in the west knows that the so called "Islamic" country is far from Islam. They are simply trying to make people respect their beliefs. If a person chooses not to play football with you then you don't go and tackle them, do you? :P The same applies to them, so they can't tackle you either. Then everyone is happy. Unless of course that person is a very good player and you wanted him to be in your team...

    What were we talking about again?
    Well you can't make people respect belief and if you try it will just make them less respectful.
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    (Original post by 2026)
    This verse?

    "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands".
    The difference here, my friend, is that you are using a bad translation.
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    (Original post by CJ99)
    Well you can't make people respect belief and if you try it will just make them less respectful.
    It's not as much as respecting a belief as much as respecting a human right to have a belief.
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    The difference here, my friend, is that you are using a bad translation.
    Of course, I'm using the bad translation. lol. Let's just say that some Islamic scholars think that the hijab is compulsory in Islam and some think it's not and keep it at that.
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    (Original post by Don_Kamikaze)
    It's not as much as respecting a belief as much as respecting a human right to have a belief.
    That's ridiculous. Me mocking your belief does not prevent you from believing whatever you wish to believe.
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    (Original post by 2026)
    That's ridiculous. Me mocking your belief does not prevent you from believing whatever you wish to believe.
    Of course it doesn't, but it gives an impression that one is not welcome and it goes against living in harmony, doesn't it?

    As for the translation, I believe I can tell if it's a bad translation if I speak the language, don't you think? Plus name me a few accredited scholars that say it is not compulsory. Another point is that is is mentioned in the Hadith too...
 
 
 
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