Nicola Sturgeon Tabling Independence Referendum Motion Within Scottish Parliament

Watch this thread
filletofish
Badges: 13
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#1
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#1
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nicola-st...ndum-scotland/
0
reply
filletofish
Badges: 13
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#2
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#2
The Scottish First Minister has said that it is up to Scottish Parliament, not Westminster, as to when a Scottish Independence referendum can be called.

Commenting on the election, she said that the SNP's success proves there is a mandate for another referendum.


Sturgeon said: "Scotland has rejected Boris Johnson and the Tories and yet again we have said no to Brexit."

She added: "The stunning election win last night for the SNP renews, reinforces and strengthens the mandate we have from previous election to offer the people of Scotland a choice over their future.
0
reply
filletofish
Badges: 13
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#3
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#3
"That mandate says it is for the Scottish parliament, not a Westminster government to decide whether and when there should be a new referendum on independence.

"So given the verdict of the people of Scotland last night, the Scottish government will next week publish the detailed, democratic case for a transfer of power to enable a referendum to be put beyond legal challenge.

"I have been clear that a referendum must be the responsibility of the Scottish parliament."

Sturgeon also commented: "This is not about asking Boris Johnson or any other Westminster politician for permission. It is instead an assertion of the democratic right of the people of Scotland to determine our own future."
0
reply
filletofish
Badges: 13
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#4
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#4
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon on Friday said her devolved government would publish a "detailed democratic case" for a transfer of power from London to allow a fresh independence referendum in Scotland.

Sturgeon said the strong showing for her party in the UK general election a day earlier underlined the need for Scotland to be given another chance to vote on the issue.

Read more: Opinion: Boris wins, but the UK loses

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's pro-Brexit Conservative Party won a landslide victory on Thursday, clinching a clear majority nationwide. However, it lost seven of its 13 seats in Scotland.

"This is not about asking Prime Minister Boris Johnson or any other Westminster politician for permission," Sturgeon said on Friday after it emerged that her party had won in 48 of the 59 Scottish constituencies.

"It is an assertion of the democratic right of the people of Scotland to determine their own future," she added.

Addressing Johnson directly, she said: "You as the leader of a defeated party in Scotland have no right to stand in the way."
0
reply
username402722
Badges: 19
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#5
Report 2 years ago
#5
Whilst it may demonstrate that the Scottish Parliament supports a referendum being held, it will be refused by the Westminster government. Much as I want Indyref 2, it will not happen whilst the Conservative (and Unionist) party is in power.
0
reply
filletofish
Badges: 13
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#6
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#6
(Original post by barnetlad)
Whilst it may demonstrate that the Scottish Parliament supports a referendum being held, it will be refused by the Westminster government. Much as I want Indyref 2, it will not happen whilst the Conservative (and Unionist) party is in power.
Ok say Sturgeon holds a referendum via motion of scottish parliament, and the poll suggests scots wanna leave - there will be national outrage if Boris doesn't properly address the issue
0
reply
username402722
Badges: 19
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#7
Report 2 years ago
#7
(Original post by filletofish)
Ok say Sturgeon holds a referendum via motion of scottish parliament, and the poll suggests scots wanna leave - there will be national outrage if Boris doesn't properly address the issue
The UK parliament has to approve any referendum being held, and this will not be granted. Many Scottish people will be outraged I agree, but this will not change Mr Johnson's mind, nor the Scottish cabinet member Mr Gove.
0
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#8
Report 2 years ago
#8
(Original post by barnetlad)
The UK parliament has to approve any referendum being held, and this will not be granted. Many Scottish people will be outraged I agree, but this will not change Mr Johnson's mind, nor the Scottish cabinet member Mr Gove.
The fun thing about this though is theres nothing stopping her simply holding one without Westminsters approval and if it passed with a majority she would have presented Boris with a faite accompli imo. He couldnt very well be rattling on about the sanctity of the will of the people vis-a-vis brexit then ignore the Scots (never mind such an insult would infuriate many Scots otherwise in favour of the union.
If dear nicola plays her cards right she has that blonde fop over a barrel.
1
reply
navarre
Badges: 20
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#9
Report 2 years ago
#9
She can pass as many motions as she wants. Without the express consent of the UK Parliament, she may as well be ****ing into the wind. We'd just have a Catalan situation all over again, and we all know how that turned out when they held an unlawful referendum.

Boris has no incentive to grant it. RUK voters would be overwhelmingly against it, and since the Tories have frankly proven they don't need Scotland to achieve a huge majority, they won't exactly be interested in appealing to Scottish independence voters.

Part of the problem with the Scottish independence movement is that they've put all their votes into a party with practically no influence in the place it matters the most- Westminster.
Last edited by navarre; 2 years ago
1
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 14
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#10
Report 2 years ago
#10
(Original post by filletofish)
Ok say Sturgeon holds a referendum via motion of scottish parliament, and the poll suggests scots wanna leave - there will be national outrage if Boris doesn't properly address the issue
Would the Scots vote to leave the UK though, the nationalist vote was still less than 50% in the election.
0
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#11
Report 2 years ago
#11
(Original post by navarre)
She can pass as many motions as she wants. Without the express consent of the UK Parliament, she may as well be ****ing into the wind. We'd just have a Catalan situation all over again, and we all know how that turned out when they held an unlawful referendum.

Boris has no incentive to grant it. RUK voters would be overwhelmingly against it, and since the Tories have frankly proven they don't need Scotland to achieve a huge majority, they won't exactly be interested in appealing to Scottish independence voters.

Part of the problem with the Scottish independence movement is that they've put all their votes into a party with practically no influence in the place it matters the most- Westminster.
You seem to be ignoring the fact there is nothing stopping her holding one anyway. It might de jure not have any practical meaning as far as westminster is concerned but the fact of the matter is it would be next to impossible for London to ignore the results of said referendum if she decides to hold one. As i noted in a prior comment.

Not to mention there's the rather obvious fact which you demonstrated quite aptly in your comment that the Scots couldnt give a toss for the English being bolshy and trying to lord it over them. Especially as the English don't get a say as far as Scotland is concerned - with good reason as well.
0
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#12
Report 2 years ago
#12
(Original post by ColinDent)
Would the Scots vote to leave the UK though, the nationalist vote was still less than 50% in the election.
45% before the rest of the UK decided to expressly tell Scotland to go **** itself... There's every chance the nationalists could squeak through a leave vote by a percentage point or two (which would be rather awkward for London given the Brexit numbers).

The fact of the matter is though that the Union is on shaky ground, as the last indyref showed with nearly half wanting out. England has done wonders for laying the ground work for actual independence for Scotland and whilst one is a unionist i can utterly sympathise with their position now, after all who wants to be a vassal state hmm?
0
reply
navarre
Badges: 20
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#13
Report 2 years ago
#13
(Original post by Napp)
You seem to be ignoring the fact there is nothing stopping her holding one anyway. It might de jure not have any practical meaning as far as westminster is concerned but the fact of the matter is it would be next to impossible for London to ignore the results of said referendum if she decides to hold one. As i noted in a prior comment.

Not to mention there's the rather obvious fact which you demonstrated quite aptly in your comment that the Scots couldnt give a toss for the English being bolshy and trying to lord it over them. Especially as the English don't get a say as far as Scotland is concerned - with good reason as well.
Of course, there is nothing stopping her. There was nothing stopping the Catalan parliament holding its own referendum, either. However, a London government actually recognising the result of said referendum would be unlikely, especially considering- as previously mentioned- there is absolutely no political incentive for the government to do so. After all, which votes would they be losing if they didn't recognise it?

On the other hand, any government/prime minister responsible for the break up of the UK would be damned by the history books as well as potentially facing huge electoral punishment come the next vote.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by your last comment, especially as the Parliament of the UK is sovereign over Scotland and is dominated by English MPs- it would seem the English get quite a say about the future of Scotland after all.
0
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#14
Report 2 years ago
#14
(Original post by navarre)
Of course, there is nothing stopping her. There was nothing stopping the Catalan parliament holding its own referendum, either. However, a London government actually recognising the result of said referendum would be unlikely, especially considering- as previously mentioned- there is absolutely no political incentive for the government to do so. After all, which votes would they be losing if they didn't recognise it?
I'm not sure you can really compare the Scottish and Catalan cases. However, as i said, London would be on very shaky ground denying 'the will of the people' if such a move came to pass. Never mind it would almost certainly expand support for independence exponentially.
On the other hand, any government/prime minister responsible for the break up of the UK would be damned by the history books as well as potentially facing huge electoral punishment come the next vote.
Quite possibly. But given people have just elected one who doesnt give a rats ass for the wishes of Scotland and is the leader of an English nationalist party (irrespective of their name), well...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by your last comment, especially as the Parliament of the UK is sovereign over Scotland and is dominated by English MPs- it would seem the English get quite a say about the future of Scotland after all.
My point was more the everyday Englishman can say whatever they like about Scotland but they do not get a say in if it becomes independent or not. Unless you're rather keen to further ram home the truism that Scotland is little more than a colony?

At any rate i stand by the point. If the SNP pushed ahead with a referendum sans Londons blessing there would be little London could do about it. If they ignore it and effectively tell the Scots that their opinions are worth nothing how do you think that will go?
0
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 14
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#15
Report 2 years ago
#15
(Original post by Napp)
45% before the rest of the UK decided to expressly tell Scotland to go **** itself... There's every chance the nationalists could squeak through a leave vote by a percentage point or two (which would be rather awkward for London given the Brexit numbers).

The fact of the matter is though that the Union is on shaky ground, as the last indyref showed with nearly half wanting out. England has done wonders for laying the ground work for actual independence for Scotland and whilst one is a unionist i can utterly sympathise with their position now, after all who wants to be a vassal state hmm?
If they get another referendum and they choose that option then good luck to them, I would be a hypocrite to argue otherwise.
1
reply
navarre
Badges: 20
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#16
Report 2 years ago
#16
(Original post by Napp)
I'm not sure you can really compare the Scottish and Catalan cases. However, as i said, London would be on very shaky ground denying 'the will of the people' if such a move came to pass. Never mind it would almost certainly expand support for independence exponentially.

Quite possibly. But given people have just elected one who doesnt give a rats ass for the wishes of Scotland and is the leader of an English nationalist party (irrespective of their name), well...

My point was more the everyday Englishman can say whatever they like about Scotland but they do not get a say in if it becomes independent or not. Unless you're rather keen to further ram home the truism that Scotland is little more than a colony?

At any rate i stand by the point. If the SNP pushed ahead with a referendum sans Londons blessing there would be little London could do about it. If they ignore it and effectively tell the Scots that their opinions are worth nothing how do you think that will go?
I think the comparison between Scotland and Catalonia is a fair one, although obviously there are a few exceptions (Catalonia has its own national language, hasn't had the opportunity previously to express itself in a legally binding vote, has Spain's wealthiest regions etc).

The new PM may not care about the will of many Scottish people- but then, as I previously mentioned, he can get away with it. The political risks to himself are small.

As for Scotland being a colony- I think this a rather unfair view of the situation. Let's not pretend it could ever be a truly equal partner in a Union with a nation with 10 times its population, but it is still a nation with seats in Parliament and its own levels of self determination. It is no more a colony than, say, Catalonia, or Quebec, or California. Just because its people are falling for the nationalist sentiment of one party, it doesn't make that sentiment true.
Last edited by navarre; 2 years ago
0
reply
tashkent46
Badges: 20
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#17
Report 2 years ago
#17
Pointless waste of Scottish money. Not a chance Boris grants a referendum and that's what is needed for the referendum to have any legal weight.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest

Do you know what you'll do if you don't get the grades you're hoping for?

Find something else in clearing (9)
34.62%
Take a gap year (6)
23.08%
Resit my exams (6)
23.08%
Look for alternate pathways to the career I want (3)
11.54%
I don't know yet (1)
3.85%
Something else (tell us in the thread) (1)
3.85%

Watched Threads

View All