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Bring back capital punishment watch

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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    Costs more money, though.
    Makes more sense to me to just obliterate them.
    Yeah, I guess. I guess I kind of equate death with freedom in a sense though so kind of in two minds about it.
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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    Costs more money, though.
    Makes more sense to me to just obliterate them.
    The thing is, it doesn't. If you look at stats from the USA (which is probably the most comparable to how things would be in the UK if we had capital punishment, as they're also a common law country), it costs them more to execute someone than to hold them in prison for life.
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    (Original post by Mumintroll)
    The thing is, it doesn't. If you look at stats from the USA (which is probably the most comparable to how things would be in the UK if we had capital punishment, as they're also a common law country), it costs them more to execute someone than to hold them in prison for life.
    Which form of execution, and how long were they on death row for?
    -- Doesn't it depend on that?
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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    Costs more money, though.
    Makes more sense to me to just obliterate them.
    A common misconception. In America, the most common cause of death for inmates on death row is natural causes. The need for heightened security and the constant appealing pushes the cost of a death sentence above that of a life imprisonment one.
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    (Original post by Rich19)
    A common misconception. In America, the most common cause of death for inmates on death row is natural causes. The need for heightened security and the constant appealing pushes the cost of a death sentence above that of a life imprisonment one.
    Maybe the whole process should be shorter in some way. Would the death penalty then be acceptable if it were cheaper?
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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    Which form of execution, and how long were they on death row for?
    Most of the statistics are obviously averages, they are not given as comparisons between each individual prisoner killed as that would be meaningless. But for example, Indiana's criminal law commission estimates the death penalty costs 38% more than the total cost of "life without parole".

    Of course, the Chinese style 'shoot them in the head out the back of the prison' method would probably be cheaper than life imprisonment or the US method of state-endorsed killing. However, it already concerns me that you support capital punishment at all - if you were to support lowering the standard of British justice to the Chinese (or Saudi, Iranian, Sudanese etc) level then I'd be seriously worried.
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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    Maybe the whole process should be shorter in some way. Would the death penalty then be acceptable if it were cheaper?
    Shorter would mean being less certain that the accused is totally guilty, so no.
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    Why does everyone think that capital punishment is a justifiable punishment for rape?

    Emotional trauma? Check. Physical Assault? Check. Murder? I don't bloody think so.
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    (Original post by Mumintroll)
    Most of the statistics are obviously averages, they are not given as comparisons between each individual prisoner killed as that would be meaningless. But for example, Indiana's criminal law commission estimates the death penalty costs 38% more than the total cost of "life without parole".

    Of course, the Chinese style 'shoot them in the head out the back of the prison' method would probably be cheaper than life imprisonment or the US method of state-endorsed killing. However, it already concerns me that you support capital punishment at all - if you were to support lowering the standard of British justice to the Chinese (or Saudi, Iranian, Sudanese etc) level then I'd be seriously worried.
    Well, uh.
    I am extremely tired, practically propping my eyes open right now. So I think that could be affecting my judgement. I'll reconsider in the morning, but right now, it's actually yes. Thanks for the food for thought, though.
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    (Original post by Rich19)
    Shorter would mean being less certain that the accused is totally guilty, so no.
    Like I said, if they were caught on CCTV, and it was absolutely certain, surely there's no reason to be against the death penalty if they did it for a reason other than self-defense or something like that. I just don't think it should be ruled out in every case. I've definately come across as some ruthless git, though.
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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    Like I said, if they were caught on CCTV, and it was absolutely certain, surely there's no reason to be against the death penalty if they did it for a reason other than self-defense or something like that. I just don't think it should be ruled out in every case. I've definately come across as some ruthless git, though.
    There's loads of reasons to be against it, even in such a case. Basically, it's inhumane. But more than that, it's seriously hypercritical for the authorities to state killing is illegal but then engage in it themselves; it sends out a very confused signal when it comes to ethics. If the state endorses killing when it suits its needs, it cheapens the value of life to others who think themselves worth more than the authorities.
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    (Original post by Mumintroll)
    There's loads of reasons to be against it, even in such a case. Basically, it's inhumane. But more than that, it's seriously hypercritical for the authorities to state killing is illegal but then engage in it themselves; it sends out a very confused signal when it comes to ethics. If the state endorses killing when it suits its needs, it cheapens the value of life to others who think themselves worth more than the authorities.
    You're right there, but I don't see how it's inhumane.
    Most anti- capital punishment arguments just always seem to boil down to the fact that the person thinks that even the most bloodythirsty murderer, who would happily go out into society and kill again, doesn't deserve the death penalty. Humans kill each other, they always have done; I believe that a death penalty would reduce murder in society anyway, that it would have a real fear effect. In the US perhaps they commit murders anyway because they know it'll all just get tangled up in the judical system.
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    (Original post by DisgruntledMoth)
    You're right there, but I don't see how it's inhumane.
    Most anti- capital punishment arguments just always seem to boil down to the fact that the person thinks that even the most bloodythirsty murderer, who would happily go out into society and kill again, doesn't deserve the death penalty. Humans kill each other, they always have done; I believe that a death penalty would reduce murder in society anyway, that it would have a real fear effect. In the US perhaps they commit murders anyway because they know it'll all just get tangled up in the judical system.
    Of course there are people who are against capital punishment for the ethical and moral reasons you outline. I'd count myself amongst them.

    But there are plenty of other reasons to be against it. As we've just found out, it costs more. So if you're an economic conservative, you're probably against high government spending. So there's your reason for being against capital punishment.

    Naturally, people want to reduce the murder rate. Well, I'm afraid that supporting capital punishment is also the wrong way to go to achieve that. Studies from the US show that areas without capital punishment enjoy generally much lower murder rates - and in areas that have abolished capital punishment, murder rates have either stayed the same or even fallen. And then look at Canada - America's northern neighbour, a country that shares many cultural similarities with the USA. It does not have capital punishment; it's murder rate is far lower than the US'. You can make the comparison also with the EU countries.

    So, really, the only reason I can see to support capital punishment is if you are some kind of sadist who finds joy in the idea of people being killed. And if so, you're probably not a million miles away from the mindset of the actual murderers themselves. And that's not a group of people I'd like to share values with.
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    Definitely no. We need to crack down on the situation of apathy,violence and disrespect in Britain IMO, but killing people isn't the cure for it, and certainly doesn't leave the perpetrator to regret their actions and lose their freedom & rights.
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    serial rapists should be used as guinea pigs for cancer research
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    (Original post by Mumintroll)
    So, really, the only reason I can see to support capital punishment is if you are some kind of sadist who finds joy in the idea of people being killed. And if so, you're probably not a million miles away from the mindset of the actual murderers themselves. And that's not a group of people I'd like to share values with.
    Please don't assume that. :p:

    I know very little about the capital punishment systems around the world, so all I can do for now is just assume the statistics you say about lower murder rates etc (despite me saying that that's because of a flawed judical system) are correct enough.

    Just personally, to clear my name a bit- once someone has murdered another, in my eyes they are no longer really a person. I just don't see why that "person" should be allowed to live with the risk of them being let out into society only to hurt more people again. That's just what I want to prevent.
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    Typical BBC!.,, did you know that the bastions of political correctness are killing our kids,,, Its time we bring back Mary Whitehouse,,, If you like it so much why dont you go live there!! Here come the pc brigade and the nanny state! non-christians are getting away with murder. It is vital that we shoot on sight. Typical Nu-Labour arrogance, here come the pc brigade and the nanny state! non-christians are trying to kill us all because they want to destroy us from within!, We must burn them alive, Next question.!!

    Open your eyes people! ethnics are trying to control our lives because they are trying to cover up their mistakes! End this madness now strig them all up. What next? Allowing in foreigners? Oops. They do it alredy!!!!! I think we all know whats going on here. . it's obvious that paedos are helping their scottish comrades. Every British working man must chop their hand's off, see how they like it. This morning at breakfast my son leaned over to me and in a hushed voice said "Dad, we are still in England, aren’t we?" No son, I said. Not any more.
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    I consider myself a cautious supporter of the death penalty.
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    The main argument for me against the death penalty has nothing to do with the value of human life but rather the value of human death;

    If you are going to have the death penalty, you need to ensure the accused has every possible chance to prove himself innocent to ensure no, or few, innocent people are executed.

    This will inevitably lead to a huge appeals system which is incredibly costly.

    In the end, putting someone to death costs the state something like 3x more than keeping them locked up for life.



    Revenge should never be an issue in these instances. If we could ensure fair application without abuse of capital punishment, and do so cheaply, id be in favour. As it is, we can make neither promise; any system will be hella expensive and hella injust (on occasion). Hence fail.
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    No. Innocent people will be killed, it's expensive, you're saying murder is wrong, but then that it's fine for people you think deserve it.
 
 
 
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