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SHallowvale
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#61
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#61
(Original post by ColinDent)
The EU could easily lose it's entire existence because of a bad deal, you point out that we aren't any individual countries biggest partner ( although we are possibly Ireland's ?) there are more than a few extremely fragile economies there, and yes that does include Germanies, that would struggle to take the hit.
Just one of those economies failing could bring down the whole house of cards either economically or politically so yes the EU has a great deal to lose here.
Could you clarify why the EU could easily cease to exist if there is a bad deal?

Most, if not all, EU economies were hit hard during the financial crisis but it didn't cease to be.
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SHallowvale
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#62
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(Original post by ColinDent)
No the reason for my vote to leave was because I oppose the ever closer union, which would eventually lead to a federal superstate.
Shame you voted to leave, then, since we already had the European Union Act 2011. That had you covered.
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ColinDent
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#63
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#63
(Original post by 999tigger)
The UK is the biggest trading partner? Are you sure?
Well the US did overtake us slightly but that was before all the trade war stuff started earlier in the year so I would guess that this year we very possibly are, but if not then we are a very close second.
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999tigger
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#64
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Well the US did overtake us slightly but that was before all the trade war stuff started earlier in the year so I would guess that this year we very possibly are, but if not then we are a very close second.
So is that a false claim or not, show us the figures.
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ColinDent
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#65
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#65
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Shame you voted to leave, then, since we already had the European Union Act 2011. That had you covered.
Nope, they charge all that stuff at a drop of a hat, like it or not.
It is and has always been their goal and they do still want to see it through.
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ByEeek
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#66
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#66
(Original post by ColinDent)
The EU could easily lose it's entire existence because of a bad deal, you point out that we aren't any individual countries biggest partner ( although we are possibly Ireland's ?) there are more than a few extremely fragile economies there, and yes that does include Germanies, that would struggle to take the hit.
Just one of those economies failing could bring down the whole house of cards either economically or politically so yes the EU has a great deal to lose here.
True. And such a crash would take us out too. A bit like trying to blow next door up with dynamite forgetting that you live in a semi.
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SHallowvale
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#67
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Nope, they charge all that stuff at a drop of a hat, like it or not.
It is and has always been their goal and they do still want to see it through.
I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me?
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ColinDent
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#68
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#68
(Original post by 999tigger)
So is that a false claim or not, show us the figures.
I'll be honest and say that I'm going on up older figures so it's possible that I'm wrong on this matter ( see angry redhead it's not that difficult) but nevertheless it would be a huge hit for the EU that they would struggle to cope with.
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SHallowvale
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#69
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(Original post by ByEeek)
True. And such a crash would take us out too. A bit like trying to blow next door up with dynamite forgetting that you live in a semi.
Not even that. It would be like blowing your own house up and damaging the house next door.

The EU will undoubtably suffer from the UK leaving without a deal. It will still have, however, it's own internal market (which is far larger) and many other free trade agreements with non-EU countries. The UK would have close to nothing.
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ByEeek
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#70
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(Original post by ColinDent)
No the reason for my vote to leave was because I oppose the ever closer union, which would eventually lead to a federal superstate.
Fair dos. And now we have gone such a prospect is more likely. I wonder what it is like to be a small independent country next to a major power? Maybe we should ask the Ukraine or Lithuania?
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ColinDent
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#71
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#71
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Could you clarify why the EU could easily cease to exist if there is a bad deal?

Most, if not all, EU economies were hit hard during the financial crisis but it didn't cease to be.
It is much weaker now than it was then, as I've said not just financially but also politically, the 2 situations are incomparable.
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ByEeek
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#72
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Oh come now. We have free trade agreements with Lebanon and Georgia!

To be fair I was surprised at how bad our trade agreements were

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade...no-deal-brexit
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999tigger
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#73
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#73
(Original post by ColinDent)
I'll be honest and say that I'm going on up older figures so it's possible that I'm wrong on this matter ( see angry redhead it's not that difficult) but nevertheless it would be a huge hit for the EU that they would struggle to cope with.
I dont see how it is easier for the UK to absorb at 65m v another country at 400+ million?
In what basis do you say the EU would struggle to cope?
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999tigger
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#74
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#74
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Not even that. It would be like blowing your own house up and damaging the house next door.

The EU will undoubtably suffer from the UK leaving without a deal. It will still have, however, it's own internal market (which is far larger) and many other free trade agreements with non-EU countries. The UK would have close to nothing.
Wouldnt that mean seeing things in context and taking a balanced view of the situation?
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ColinDent
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#75
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#75
(Original post by 999tigger)
I dont see how it is easier for the UK to absorb at 65m v another country at 400+ million?
In what basis do you say the EU would struggle to cope?
It is made up of several economies, as I've already explained there are more than a few of those economies that are extremely volatile and fragile, Germany itself is struggling so would it be able to continue to prop up the rest? I personally doubt it.
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999tigger
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#76
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(Original post by ColinDent)
It is made up of several economies, as I've already explained there are more than a few of those economies that are extremely volatile and fragile, Germany itself is struggling so would it be able to continue to prop up the rest? I personally doubt it.
But the impact overall is shared amongst many more than the UK, therefore the impact will be less, even though there will be some variation amongst countries. If what you say is true then the EU is bound to cave due to Boris's amazing negotiating skills and the UK will get a very favourable trade deal from the desperate Europeans.

All we seem to have is May's deal so far.
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ColinDent
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#77
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#77
(Original post by 999tigger)
But the impact overall is shared amongst many more than the UK, therefore the impact will be less, even though there will be some variation amongst countries. If what you say is true then the EU is bound to cave due to Boris's amazing negotiating skills and the UK will get a very favourable trade deal from the desperate Europeans.

All we seem to have is May's deal so far.
Yep, but we've also only had a remainer parliament tying the negotiators hands thus far, with the EU knowing that no deal wasn't really on the table.
Oh we've gone round in a full circle.
We are obviously never going to agree on this, let's revisit the matter in a year and see who's right.
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999tigger
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#78
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#78
(Original post by ColinDent)
Yep, but we've also only had a remainer parliament tying the negotiators hands thus far, with the EU knowing that no deal wasn't really on the table.
Oh we've gone round in a full circle.
We are obviously never going to agree on this, let's revisit the matter in a year and see who's right.
Boris and the ERG group were the other side of frustrating negotiations.
I dont see how a year will see whose right.

You called it common sense.
I call it unnecessary limitations done for the voters and posturing which takes the unneeded risk of getting a half cocked, sub standard or no deal at all, which is not in the interests of the UK.
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ColinDent
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#79
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#79
(Original post by 999tigger)
Boris and the ERG group were the other side of frustrating negotiations.
I dont see how a year will see whose right.

You called it common sense.
I call it unnecessary limitations done for the voters and posturing which takes the unneeded risk of getting a half cocked, sub standard or no deal at all, which is not in the interests of the UK.
Then we have differing views as I've said, to me it makes perfect sense to put a limit on negotiating time.
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SHallowvale
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#80
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#80
(Original post by 999tigger)
Wouldnt that mean seeing things in context and taking a balanced view of the situation?
Pardon?
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