Why the Tories are better for Britain Watch

Xtina92
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#61
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#61
(Original post by L i b)
The first point on funding is simply false. Health spending has, as I said, increased in real terms in every year since 2010 and has been at a record high in every one of those years.

Your second point is arguable at best. Labour introduced it after the '45 election, but it built on a lot of ideas and ultimately the proposal was first put forward by a Conservative health minister in the wartime National Government under Churchill.



Care has always been rationed in the NHS - it has a finite budget. The challenges it faces are well-known, but it is a far better system than it was decades ago - even with the increased expectations placed upon it.

In terms of A&Es, this has been a popular complaint under many governments. People like having one nearby, sure, but the vast weight of evidence is that better equipped regional trauma centres have better outcomes than more dispersed, less comprehensive coverage. In my view, that's a fairly well established fact in health policy circles, yet every major political party has pretended otherwise at some point, because there's nothing better for a Parliamentary candidate than a "save our A&E" campaign.



I'm not really sure what your objection is to Universal Credit. If it's simply the levels, then that's really back to the tax credits issue. There are parts, like the wait period, that you'll find plenty of Conservatives who aren't particularly fond of.

Ultimately the core of UC was amalgamating benefits to simplify them and create a clearer taper as earnings increased - removing perverse disincentives to work. I've never heard a coherent argument made against that, other than that it is tricky to set up. Indeed, plenty of parties have spoken in favour of that principle.
I don't know what else to say to you since we seem to disagree on every principle, so there doesn't seem to be much point in this conversation.
Hospital closures in rural parts of the country mean patients have to be displaced miles from home. That's if they even survive. I disagree that larger hospitals further away are necessarily better. In an emergency the important thing is to get prompt treatment. For some people in the country, their nearest A&E is two hours away. In London, the closure of hospitals has only caused more pressure in the ones nearby. Of course they have to put it out there that it's for the benefit of the patients to avoid outrage, but really it's just to line the pockets of fat cats.
And with Universal credit, if you don't understand why five weeks wait and a lump sum of cash once a month instead of once a fortnight can be problematic for a lot of people, then you must either be very well off indeed or still dependent on your parents.
Merry Christmas. Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Last edited by Xtina92; 4 weeks ago
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Gundabad(good)
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#62
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#62
(Original post by DangledTeaspoon)
I saw on BBC News that it was something like 70% of 18-24 year olds voted labour, compared to 70% of 60 year olds voting conservative. I like my generation
The young will turn into the old and soon like the Tories more.
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Gundabad(good)
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#63
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#63
(Original post by L i b)
There haven't been any cuts to the NHS. NHS funding has grown above real terms since the Conservatives came in back in 2010 and will almost certainly continue to do so. The NHS, however, is pressured by an ageing population and increased expectations on the service. These are real challenges that health services around the world have to find solutions for - it's not some sort of Tory conspiracy.

In terms of social security, fine - you're a net beneficiary. But surely you recognise that you are part of a wider society and that simply increasing benefits will negatively affect that - and probably, in the end, ultimately you as well? The main savings from social security were from (1) the now-departed benefit freeze which was justified in terms of the deficit and didn't apply in many cases (eg, for recipients of disability benefits); (2) the reductions in tax credits, a system that was far more expensive and created a far broader entitlement than Labour expected when they reformed it and (3) moving people off of out-of-work benefits (ie, JSA and ESA) and into work - combined with a higher minimum wage level that reduced the level of in-work benefit entitlement, which is largely a good thing.

The first was a temporary measure to address a significant national problem. The others addressed significant problems that existed beforehand. Tax credits was probably the most difficult choice, because it does hit a lot of working people at the lower end of the income spectrum - but these are also ones who are benefiting from things like the National Living Wage and the raising of the tax-free personal allowance.

Any party in government would've had to wrestle with these issues.
(Original post by the bear)
Labour ended up as a weird Stalinist cult which would have ruined our country if they had sneaked into power. fortunately the Great British Public smelled a rat and took drastic steps to save our economy and way of life. i am very grateful for those humble people who lent Boris their votes after generations of voting for Labour.
Labour are the socialists who will bankrupt this nation and will get rid of all the rich people in the name of "equality". They just want votes!
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Xtina92
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#64
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#64
No one needs to be rich. Id welcome more equality, the gap is already too wide and getting worse under the Tories.
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Gundabad(good)
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Xtina92)
Oh yes labour are such nasty people, wanting to help those in need by taxing the rich. Disadvantaged people are just that: disadvantaged compared to the middle class and some of the able working classes. Not lazy, not unmotivated, not scroungers or whatever else you want to call them.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.
Have the actually seen people who are in need? The only people in true need are the homeless, disabled (mentally as well) and any refugees who come here for safety. All Labour want to do is just increase welfare without any consideration to who actually needs it. I find many people who are "disadvantaged" are classed that way just because their family are supported on benefits or they get free school meals. Just because your family is poor doesn't mean you won't do well at school.
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Gundabad(good)
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Xtina92)
No one needs to be rich. Id welcome more equality, the gap is already too wide and getting worse under the Tories.
You think it would be different with a Labour government?
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the bear
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Xtina92)
No one needs to be rich. Id welcome more equality, the gap is already too wide and getting worse under the Tories.
you know that Jezza is richer than Boris, yeah ?

:rofl:
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Xtina92
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#68
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#68
(Original post by the bear)
you know that Jezza is richer than Boris, yeah ?

:rofl:
Source?
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AngryRedhead
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#69
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#69
(Original post by the bear)
you know that Jezza is richer than Boris, yeah ?

:rofl:
No he isn’t;

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...byn_jeremy.htm

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...nson_boris.htm
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DangledTeaspoon
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
The young will turn into the old and soon like the Tories more.
Only if their attitudes change, but a friend has a theory the older are richer and thus have more to gain from a Tory government
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Burton Bridge
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#71
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
Why do you have this attitude torwards me? I didn’t even vote Tory
Welcome to the tolerance of the modern left. The reason you are searching for, is the same reason me and you crossed swords briefly!

I'm a left wing man, you dont have to be far to the right to be more to the right than me. However I voted conservative and I found a whole new level of bigotry and hate, spewed at me for doing so by certain "liberal" people.

For balance this isn't new, traditional socialists did this to a degree particularly in the 70's in the trade unions and there are degoratory comments aimed at labour supporters in certain social circles. But this modern toxicity is the unfortunate home of the left, the "progressive left".

There really isn't enough irony to describe it.
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QE2
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Welcome to the tolerance of the modern left. The reason you are searching for, is the same reason me and you crossed swords briefly!

I'm a left wing man, you dont have to be far to the right to be more to the right than me. However I voted conservative and I found a whole new level of bigotry and hate, spewed at me for doing so by certain "liberal" people.

For balance this isn't new, traditional socialists did this to a degree particularly in the 70's in the trade unions and there are degoratory comments aimed at labour supporters in certain social circles. But this modern toxicity is the unfortunate home of the left, the "progressive left".

There really isn't enough irony to describe it.
Traitor.
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Burton Bridge
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#73
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#73
(Original post by QE2)
Traitor.
Lol that made me laugh, funny I like it
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Xtina92
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#74
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(Original post by Gundabad(good))
You think it would be different with a Labour government?
Um...yes? I mean there'd still be rich and poor but at least they have the right idea about closing the gap. What are the Tories doing about it?
You know there's really no point in arguing with someone who isn't going to change their mind.
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QE2
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#75
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Lol that made me laugh, funny I like it
Well, it's Christmas.
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stellac
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#76
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(Original post by Xtina92)
Yes the Tories are better...if you're white, male and rich.
I beg to differ. Conservatives just welcome freedom, to anyone, of any race, of any social standing. Conservatives give you the freedom to try your best at whatever you want to do. However you also have the freedom to fail, something liberals cant rap their heads around.
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Xtina92
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#77
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(Original post by stellac)
I beg to differ. Conservatives just welcome freedom, to anyone, of any race, of any social standing. Conservatives give you the freedom to try your best at whatever you want to do. However you also have the freedom to fail, something liberals cant rap their heads around.
No, they just welcome anyone with million pound businesses and give tax breaks to the rich.
A decent government doesn't let millions upon millions of people 'fail' and become homeless.
Last edited by Xtina92; 4 weeks ago
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Xtina92
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#78
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(Original post by Gundabad(good))
Have the actually seen people who are in need? The only people in true need are the homeless, disabled (mentally as well) and any refugees who come here for safety. All Labour want to do is just increase welfare without any consideration to who actually needs it. I find many people who are "disadvantaged" are classed that way just because their family are supported on benefits or they get free school meals. Just because your family is poor doesn't mean you won't do well at school.
Yes, have you? What do you know about being in need? It's not just about being homeless but having to choose between heating and food, feeding yourself or your children. You know nothing. And there is a correlation between poverty at home and success at school whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Just ask the students in your failing school.
Last edited by Xtina92; 4 weeks ago
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Gundabad(good)
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#79
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Some of those people made very poor choices when they were younger. Crime/Low effort in school/Drug and alcohol abuse. I'm not saying they should be punished for their mistakes in youth but they made their choices and should only get help as a privilege for living in the UK and not some third world country. To be honest, SOME of them made themselves unemployable by getting rubbish grades (next to no hard work)/getting a criminal record/serious substance abuse. And just because you're poor, it doesn't mean you'll achieve less than someone better off financially. It's about attitude to learning and life after school. I'm telling you that if most of those students actually put in the work in the first place, then they would pass all their GCSEs with at least a grade 4.
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borisj
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#80
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Its very simple if you want to work and get on in your life with more of what you earn then vote Tory.

If however you want to live your life off others people cash with the very generous welfare payments that enable you to have sky, booze and **** on tap with the promise of more unlimited benefits buffet then naturally you vote Labour. Essentially they bribe you to vote for them with other peoples cash! Then they wonder when it all runs out, how did that happen?

Its amazing in years gone by you would leave school at 16, fill a couple of forms in get a free council flat with spending money thrown in, then bang a couple of kids out when you needed a bigger place or more of other peoples cash to spend. How is that there are hundreds of thousands of welfare scroungers living rent free in Central London when working people cannot afford to live there? Any incentive to work, not really.

Why do the scroungers complain the foreigners are taking their jobs when they are better off not working? After brexit will they do their jobs? Give them a choice work or starve lets see what they do.

Amazing they claim mental health, fibromyalgia and other unprovable conditions to claim other peoples cash but when talk of their benefits being checked or cut they awake out of their slumber and start complaining to the media that others peoples cash may be taken away from them! Hypocrisy. Also they claim they are too depressed to work, or work makes them ill etc but they know to the absolute penny the amount they can get of other peoples cash its as if they somehow magic numeracy skills out of nowhere!
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