Conservatives, how would you feel IF Boris sells our NHS? Watch

QE2
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Rakas21)
If they moved to a private social insurance model with a state service remaining for the elderly, children and those with very severe ongoing illness like cancer ect.. then i would think that for once a government has looked at the evidence, concluded that most European health systems have superior health outcomes and be cautiously optimistic.
So basically, an NHS with vastly reduced funding but still with the bulk of its core patients.
That makes sense.
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epicnm
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Can’t believe what I’m reading on this thread. People agreeing with NHS complete privatisation because they don’t see why anyone else should pay for their/others healthcare. Denying cancer treatment to children living in poverty just to reduce tax, it’s sickening! The NHS is one of the best things that have happened to this country, and although is failing, it is thousands of times better than having to pay tens of thousands of pounds for treatment. If you are run over by a car in the street, the NHS will give you an X-ray, treat broken bones and then organise a further consultation ALL FOR FREE, at the expense of a marginal deduction from your salary. It’s disgusting how others undervaluing of the NHS, which most likely helped gave birth to them, is affecting those with chronic illnesses and disabilities who rely on the NHS to provide them with care free at the point of service. There is no way that I could deny a person healthcare, which may I add in the 21st Century should be a human right, all to lower my salary?
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QE2
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(Original post by epicnm)
Can’t believe what I’m reading on this thread. People agreeing with NHS complete privatisation because they don’t see why anyone else should pay for their/others healthcare. Denying cancer treatment to children living in poverty just to reduce tax, it’s sickening! The NHS is one of the best things that have happened to this country, and although is failing, it is thousands of times better than having to pay tens of thousands of pounds for treatment. If you are run over by a car in the street, the NHS will give you an X-ray, treat broken bones and then organise a further consultation ALL FOR FREE, at the expense of a marginal deduction from your salary. It’s disgusting how others undervaluing of the NHS, which most likely helped gave birth to them, is affecting those with chronic illnesses and disabilities who rely on the NHS to provide them with care free at the point of service. There is no way that I could deny a person healthcare, which may I add in the 21st Century should be a human right, all to lower my salary?
We are now living in the world of Trump, Johnson and Brexit. Reality and reason seem to have no influence on many people, nor empathy and altruism. It is only "what's in it for me?" and "how can I stick it to people I don't like?"
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Chief Wiggum
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#24
(Original post by QE2)
We are now living in the world of Trump, Johnson and Brexit. Reality and reason seem to have no influence on many people, nor empathy and altruism. It is only "what's in it for me?" and "how can I stick it to people I don't like?"
You do realise that other European countries don't have an NHS-style system, don't you?

Insurance based systems are common in Europe.
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Audrey18
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#25
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#25
dxnixl QE2 Nichrome Joel 96

You only have to look at past precedent to understand what Boris is about. He
- was fired from his job as a journalist on two occasions for making up quotes
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9014196.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...396_story.html

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...son?verso=true

- compared muslim women in burkas as letterboxes and bank robbers
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/boris...bic-incidents/

- snatched a journalists mobile phone while doing a live interview during the recent General Election
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/09/uk/bo...gbr/index.html

- hid in the freezer to escape from a group of swirling journalists


- was a Remainer who then went along with the Brexit fever
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...iews-on-europe

- wanted to be 'world king' ever since he was young
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...-be-world-king

- always copying Nigel Farage's ideas
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-date-today-UK

I could go on and on. Please bear this in mind. These guys have never worked in the real world. They have never experienced the life of a commoner who works long hours for very little, incurs debts, has to rely on welfare benefits and food banks etc. For these guys, it's about personal glory. When Boris screws up, Gove and Rees-Mogg will vie for the coveted seat. To these guys, it's a game of musical chairs.
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QE2
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#26
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(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
You do realise that other European countries don't have an NHS-style system, don't you?

Insurance based systems are common in Europe.
All health systems are insurance-based, even the UK. NIC stands for National Insurance Contributions. They key is how the system deal with society's less fortunate and how insurance providers are allowed to operate.
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Connor27
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#27
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#27
(Original post by QE2)
We are now living in the world of Trump, Johnson and Brexit. Reality and reason seem to have no influence on many people, nor empathy and altruism. It is only "what's in it for me?" and "how can I stick it to people I don't like?"
It is the left that has abandoned reality and reason in favour of lunacy and cultural Marxist social policies that reject the chromosomal gender binary and assert that civilised western culture is somehow no better or worse than barbarians who burn widows alive on their husband’s funeral pyre.

Why is altruism a good value? If anything altruism is morally evil, in extremis altruism is effectively slavery and encourages you to always live your life in servitude of others with no regard for your own interests and individual freedom.
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abcthe123
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#28
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#28
(Original post by mnot)
Something that wont happen but I would in favour of is an excess charge of say £100 for 1 off visits to GP or A&E that will be refunded as long as your need is legitimate, why? because the NHS is abused and i think a small fee like this would put off the *******s who screw the system. (yes obviously for super low savings families you would need to put something in place to ensure someone who needs there last £100 in the account on any given day has it, im sure they can find a system for this). Also this would not exist for patients who require regular treatment or have a required visit, such as surgery or any other nominal non-random visit.
This is a horrible idea. All this will do is scare people away from visiting the doctor and put more people at risk.

Let me say this, I hate anything to do with doctors and hospitals and I avoid them like the ****ing plague, however,
for the first time this year I ended up visiting the doctors, 2 or 3 times actually. I was extremely reluctant to go in the first place and it took a couple of months of building up courage to visit in the first place.

Turns out, according to the doctors and the tests that they performed, I was completely fine. I took up no more than 10 minutes each time. If I had to worry about losing £100 each time I visited, I definitely wouldn't have gone in the first place, and that's coming from someone who is more than financially comfortable. If I did have something wrong with me, it likely would've progressed to something far more serious and far more costly to treat.
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QE2
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(Original post by Connor27)
It is the left that has abandoned reality and reason in favour of lunacy and cultural Marxist social policies that reject the chromosomal gender binary and assert that civilised western culture is somehow no better or worse than barbarians who burn widows alive on their husband’s funeral pyre.

Why is altruism a good value? If anything altruism is morally evil, in extremis altruism is effectively slavery and encourages you to always live your life in servitude of others with no regard for your own interests and individual freedom.
Are you ok?
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Connor27
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#30
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#30
(Original post by QE2)
Are you ok?
I’m perfectly ok, just thought I’d wake you up from your delusional view of the world with some blunt, honest truths.
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adam271
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#31
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#31
The NHS will be privatised. It's just a matter of time.

The Tories have a track record for it.
It won't be all doom and gloom though but it is inevitable.

It's a shame but the way the NHS is run is not sustainable. Pumping more money into it will not solve the issues.

I don't know the answer to the issue with the NHS tbh. I'm not sure who does. But as we have seen with the American model which is the opposite end of the spectrum.. it is even more flawed.
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mnot
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#32
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(Original post by adam271)
The NHS will be privatised. It's just a matter of time.

The Tories have a track record for it.
It won't be all doom and gloom though but it is inevitable.

It's a shame but the way the NHS is run is not sustainable. Pumping more money into it will not solve the issues.

I don't know the answer to the issue with the NHS tbh. I'm not sure who does. But as we have seen with the American model which is the opposite end of the spectrum.. it is even more flawed.
If you think your going to have to have private insurance to be treated in the UK your delusional.
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htmr
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#33
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#33
(Original post by mnot)
Something that wont happen but I would in favour of[/b] is an excess charge of say £100 for 1 off visits to GP or A&E that will be refunded as long as your need is legitimate, why? because the NHS is abused and i think a small fee like this would put off the *******s who screw the system. (yes obviously for super low savings families you would need to put something in place to ensure someone who needs there last £100 in the account on any given day has it, im sure they can find a system for this). Also this would not exist for patients who require regular treatment or have a required visit, such as surgery or any other nominal non-random visit.
how on earth would this work? who’s to decide what’s a legitimate reason to see a doctor and what’s not? hypothetically, if this were to be in practise then people with money would still take up as many appointments as they please whilst poorer people wouldn’t be able to see a doctor even in life or death cases in fear of it not being ‘legitimate’?

what good comes from attacking how people feel that they need to use the nhs instead of attacking how underfunded it is from this government?
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htmr
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(Original post by htmr)
how on earth would this work? who’s to decide what’s a legitimate reason to see a doctor and what’s not? hypothetically, if this were to be in practise then people with money would still take up as many appointments as they please whilst poorer people wouldn’t be able to see a doctor even in life or death cases in fear of it not being ‘legitimate’?

what good comes from attacking how people feel that they need to use the nhs instead of attacking how underfunded it is from this government?
omg flop i didn’t even quote it properly lmfaooo
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mnot
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#35
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(Original post by htmr)
how on earth would this work? who’s to decide what’s a legitimate reason to see a doctor and what’s not? hypothetically, if this were to be in practise then people with money would still take up as many appointments as they please whilst poorer people wouldn’t be able to see a doctor even in life or death cases in fear of it not being ‘legitimate’?

what good comes from attacking how people feel that they need to use the nhs instead of attacking how underfunded it is from this government?
https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/cha...-gdp-1950-2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._1948-2014.png

underfunded... well its percentage of funding relative to GDP is higher than its been for 87% of the existence of the NHS.
In absolute terms, funding is at an all time high. Here this argument a lot but whilst it would be lovely if the government provided every person a butler & personal doctor, there are reasonable spending restrictions on public finances.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by QE2)
All health systems are insurance-based, even the UK. NIC stands for National Insurance Contributions. They key is how the system deal with society's less fortunate and how insurance providers are allowed to operate.
NICs are nominally meant to pay for pensions. They are nothing whatever to do with the NHS.
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adam271
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#37
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#37
If you think you think that's a valid response your nuts. (See what I did eh?)
I do think it will happen though we are already moving towards it. I think pretty soon we will have a two tier health service; some are arguing it is already such.

I don't expect it to be within the next 10 years though. Maybe the next 20 or 30. It will be a slow death.
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QE2
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#38
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(Original post by Good bloke)
NICs are nominally meant to pay for pensions. They are nothing whatever to do with the NHS.
Fair enough. Was a bit of a glib comment. However, the point still stands that individuals pay contributions towards the NHS.
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LiberOfLondon
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#39
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#39
(Original post by QE2)
Erm, the definition is in the words.
Stop being flippant and explain to me what exactly a quasi dictatorship would do or mean.
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Good bloke
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#40
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#40
(Original post by QE2)
Fair enough. Was a bit of a glib comment. However, the point still stands that individuals pay contributions towards the NHS.
I thought the point was that they paid through insurance, just as they do in other parts of Europe.
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