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    (Original post by Flick The Switch)
    Exactly. We created a concept to feel we have some aim in life.
    I would like to ask you this same question when you are a parent.

    I think several things have been created with the intent of what you describe, but love? Not one of 'em. It's a very general term, and I would like to know whether you mean it in any particular context.
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    If you mean love as in being horny...then sure why not?
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    (Original post by Flick The Switch)
    I just believe it is a concept we have created.
    So we have created it? Therefore it exists...

    Anyway I think it is innate, we can feel love regardless of the evolutionary need for it, so in the sense you were talking about I think it does exist as well
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    (Original post by HCD)
    To quote the great Geoff Tate...



    I know you like 'em too, Flick, ain't they just the best? :love:
    I am partial to a bit of Geoff Tate but today I am unswayed. I still believe it is a cocktail of emotions that we have mistaken for something we want to believe in. Plus the word love is used way too much with teenage relationships, especially those that fail.
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    (Original post by Flick The Switch)
    I just believe it is a concept we have created.
    If you start thinking that way, everything in the social world is made up of concepts and ideas we have created. It would lead to questions such as:

    Does hate exist? Does anger exist? Fatigue?
    Do jobs exist? Does education exist? Do manners exist? Does good exist? Bad?
    Do friends exist?
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    (Original post by Aconite)
    Bums are generally quite important when it comes to me falling in love.
    Teehee.

    (Original post by HCD)
    To quote the great Geoff Tate...
    I didn't think heavy metal bands used the phrase "raison d'etre"...
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    (Original post by MC REN)
    So we have created it? Therefore it exists...
    We create theories. Freud created theories on love, that means they are true?
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    sure it does, you just have to wait to find the right person
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    Before I could really contribute helpfully here, could someone either fervently denying it or confirming it please give a definition, I've been struggling to come up with a concise accurate all encompasing one here...
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    (Original post by HJV)
    If you start thinking that way, everything in the social world is made up of concepts and ideas we have created. It would lead to questions such as:

    Does hate exist? Does anger exist? Fatigue?
    Do jobs exist? Does education exist? Do manners exist? Does good exist? Bad?
    Do friends exist?
    Emotions are chemicals at work in the brain. But of course jobs exist, we can physically prove all of that.
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    (Original post by Epic Win)
    sure it does, you just have to wait to find the right person
    You mean like a soul mate? There are millions and millions of people in the world and the chances of you meeting your soul mate at the same time and place is very far fetched.
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    (Original post by Flick The Switch)
    You mean like a soul mate? There are millions and millions of people in the world and the chances of you meeting your soul mate at the same time and place is very far fetched.
    Why are you so cynical about the whole concept? I am intrigued
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    of course it exists well between true friends.
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    (Original post by MSB)
    Teehee.


    I didn't think heavy metal bands used the phrase "raison d'etre"...
    :hmmm:

    They're not just a heavy metal band, boy! :hmmm:

    (Original post by Flick The Switch)
    I am partial to a bit of Geoff Tate but today I am unswayed. I still believe it is a cocktail of emotions that we have mistaken for something we want to believe in. Plus the word love is used way too much with teenage relationships, especially those that fail.
    I agree. I made this thread before. :p:
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    (Original post by HCD)
    :hmmm:

    They're not just a heavy metal band, boy! :hmmm:
    Do they dabble in barbershop harmony?
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    (Original post by HCD)
    I agree. I made this thread before. :p:
    Spoil my fun why don't you.
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    (Original post by Flick The Switch)
    I just believe it is a concept we have created.
    it's entirely narcissistic.

    If you want to read this go ahead. It's from a blog back when I was seriously depressed though (I don't feel the same way any more), but I thought you might be able to identify with it.


    Spoiler:
    Show


    Alrightys, let’s define what kinds of love there are: wikipedia ftw!
    Service: desire to help
    Altruism: selfless or unselfish concern for another
    Physical intimacy: sharing of intimate personal space
    Affection: feelings of tenderness and/or wanting physical closeness
    Kinship: family bonds
    Reciprocation: if love is mutual
    Friendship: the spirit between friends
    Commitment: a desire to maintain love
    Attachment: satisfying basic emotional needs
    Emotional intimacy: sharing emotions and feelings
    Passion: whole-hearted desire

    That’s satisfactory for now. Let’s tackle them in order.



    Service: desire to help / Altruism: selfless or unselfish concern for another

    This is an easy kind of love to quickly discount. I grouped these two together because the same argument is used to argue against their existence. You simply have to ask yourself – is there such a thing as a selfless act? Hell no, every “selfless act” you can think of WILL benefit you in some way or another.
    Helping an old lady cross the street, donating blood, community service. If you have ever donated blood, you will know that you did it because you wanted the karma, to feel good about yourself, to go “I gave blood, I saved a life” - the ego boost that you helped is more important than the help itself. You don’t see that blood you donated get put to use – all you experience first hand is that act of giving and that self esteem boost derived from it. This can be applied to any "selfless" act.
    All intentional actions are the result of a cost-benefit analysis, weighing the cost of the effort to help with the emotional reward that you helped someone. With any “selfless act” – you can guarantee it will have either:
    Boosted your own ego (The knowledge that “I helped, I did something good” – makes you feel important.)
    Raises self esteem (see above)
    Earns your respect in society
    Makes you feel a higher status in society
    Makes you feel more important than people who didn’t help.
    Benefits you emotionally, spiritually (Pleases your God, appeases your family, government),
    Benefits you intellectually, mentally, (the knowledge that you are morally superior or more clever)
    Benefits you physically. (releases chemicals that feel nicey)

    This is the ultimate motive for anything you'd consider "good" or "benevolent". All actions are selfish. All actions are self-serving.
    Benevolence does not exist. Altruism doesn’t exist. These things are hypothetical constructs that mask the primitive truth.


    Physical intimacy: sharing of intimate personal space / Affection: feelings of tenderness and/or wanting physical closeness

    This is the easiest one of the lot – the desire to have sex. It’s biological. It’s an instinct hardwired into every human being to copulate, to reproduce to ensure the survival of the species, I don’t have to tell you that! – The love that is attached to this is an evolutionary instinct to find a steady mate, one with good genes (beautiful, aesthetically well built and symmetrical).

    As well as this, there is another selfish motive for this kind of love – the self esteem boost – the knowledge that you are desirable, that you are “****able”. That you aren’t hideously ugly that someone finds you attractive, that is good for your ego and that it confirms in your thoughts that you are aesthetically superior to other people, as your mate chose to sleep with you. He/she picked you over others to find attractive and that must mean you are prettier than some people. Self serving, narcissistic self esteem boost. Next.


    Kinship: family bonds

    This is another evolutionary instinct. To ensure the survival of the species, the newborn must live until full maturity and sexual maturity. Therefore the brain forms a bond with it’s offspring to protect it to ensure the survival of the species. Paternal and maternal bonds are animalistic. They exist, yes. But not out of this hypothetical construct of a selfless “love” – out of biological rule and necessity.

    Besides, the phrase “ooh we just wanted a little life to share between us” reeks of narcissism. There are thousands of orphaned children out there who you could adopt but instead you have your own child! Why? A) Human urge to replicate your OWN genes – biological and B) because your child is something YOU MADE, like a 5 year old who made a painting of their imaginary friend to show the world, “look what I made!” – A child almost becomes a possession. Because mothers are proud of their children, that giving birth is a great achievement (and I am not saying this isn’t the case, it’s a miracle of biology to birth a healthy child) – but this pride is nevertheless self serving, because pride makes you feel important. Makes you love yourself.


    Reciprocation: if love is mutual / Friendship: the spirit between friends

    Here again we link to the concept discussed in “Physical intimacy” – the self esteem boost you gain from a relationship in knowing that you are desirable as a person, however in this case it’s not merely desirable in a sexual context, but in a social one also. The knowledge that people find you intellectual, that people find you fun to talk to, that people enjoy your company makes you feel good. This links to evolution because humans are social animals, and there will always be dominance in a social environment. Dominant behaviour ensures our survival. It is narcissistic. Think about it - the knowledge that someone loves you is a bit of a no-brainer to ask how that could be selfish. That knowledge is entirely self serving. That’s why we love others, to try and incite these feelings back. It’s a two way thing.


    Commitment: a desire to maintain love / Attachment: satisfying basic emotional needs
    This one is pretty easy – we all want to maintain love. Because losing love would be rejection, which is damaging for the ego as anyone who has ever gone through a break-up will gladly tell you. So to avoid this rejection, to quell this anxiety for fear of rejection, we have a basic desire to maintain the currently happy status quo.

    Emotional intimacy: sharing emotions and feelings / Passion: whole-hearted desire

    These are two end notes: emotional intimacy very much relies on body language and unspoken love, and trust – this is linked to the ideas in “reciprocation” – where you get pleasure from knowing someone thinks you’re great. Passion is applicable to all kinds of love; it just means that the love is particularly strong or overpowering.



    So in summation: Mcfly were right after all – it’s all about you. (There you go Jack)

    I am not arguing that love doesn’t exist, because it’s classifiable and observable and quite obviously does. I am arguing that love is not this hypothetical, almost magical force, tied to fate, that there is that one person out there and you will share this unspoken bond between two souls – that’s absurd romanticisation. Love as we know it is a series of self-serving narcissistic cognitive processes that have strong ties to evolution and your basic biology.

    If love doesn’t exist then what is there worth living for? To just go through the motions? Be slaves to biology like an ant farm and then die? This is all very depressing: but I leave you with this thought – this is the reason I am not resigning to the fact I live in a loveless world.
    Unrequited love. - The most heartbreaking of emotions. Why do people put themselves through this? No ego boost derived from unreturned feelings towards someone. Yet people pour their souls into it. So there’s hope out there, right?
    See this is why I recognise the need to draw a line between “right” and “happy”. Because at this point being “correct” is no longer important, your personal happiness is. Which is why 99% of people reading this (including myself) will just push it to the side and carry on with their lives unaffected.

    (as a side note, the idea that there’s one person for everyone is statistically ridiculous, consider, of 6.6 billion humans in the world, what the chances are that your “one” is even in the same country as you are: yet millions find their life partners in the same city, in the same schools or workplaces – it’s impossible that everyone finds their “one” so easily considering how many billions of us there are to choose from.)

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    It's just an emotion. But a powerful and controlling one.
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    (Original post by Flick The Switch)
    You mean like a soul mate? There are millions and millions of people in the world and the chances of you meeting your soul mate at the same time and place is very far fetched.
    I don't believe that every person has only one person with whom they are destined to spend their life... I believe that every person has a much larger number of people with whom they could happily spend their life. Personally, I reckon I've already met one of mine.
    You've just got to keep optimistic about these kind of things, being a pessimist about love will never yield a decent result...
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    personally i think it does....otherwise why do some lovers, or people stay awake till midnight or even 3am till their partner arrives from work, then goes to bed... or waits till 4 to have lunch with their partner?? if this isnt love what is it?
 
 
 
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