Engineering - Low paid and bad prospects?
I emailed a friend's Father to ask about engineering (I'm considering switching from chemistry to engineering, but that's a different story). He studied engineering but is now an accountant. Anyway I was a bit surprised to hear that the situation in the UK is this bad. Can anybody comment?
Email Number 1:
"It would be interesting to know what percentage of both Chemical
engineering graduates & Engineering graduates actually have jobs that
involve "real engineering" on leaving Uni. many go on to take up jobs in
other sectors like accountancy or management etc.
Chemical engineering is declining in the UK as old plants are shut down
and new plants are built closer to either the major world markets in the
Pacific rim or in the middle east closer to the oil producing centres.
If you study chemical engineering you will probably find that there
are more job opportunities overseas than in the UK. The enquiries for
new fire systems for chemical plants that I have seen in recent years
have all come from the Middle East, Pacific rim, China & Russia. I have
also heard of companies that are unable to source chemicals from the UK
any longer & are having to import them.
My initial interest in engineering was with heavy mechanical engineering
i.e. gas turbines & large diesel engines for ships trains etc. The UK no
longer builds ships or trains in any significant quantities. This type
of work has transferred overseas to place like South Korea, China &
latterly India. This is where the jobs are going to be in the near
future for heavy engineering. I started an engineering science degree
which would have given me a wider scope for all types of engineering
opportunities however in the 1970's it was clear that all sectors of the
UK engineering industry were in decline.
Civil engineering is an industry which is more difficult to transfer
overseas with the exception of the design aspects however I would not
recommend Civil engineering as most engineers are on short term
contracts and civil engineering projects are the first to suffer when
there is a recession. So a civil engineer would probably expect to find
himself without a job on several occasions during his working life.
Mechanical engineering. There are still many mechanical engineering
opportunities in the UK but probably more on the design side. Again a
lot of mechanical engineering/production engineering jobs have gone
overseas to China, Eastern Europe, pacific rim, India etc and there will
be more to follow.
Electrical/Electronic engineering. Don't know too much about the job
opportunities. Nearly all basic electronic production is carried out
overseas. Larger bespoke packages such as control panels & skid mounted
systems still made in the UK. Again more likely to find jobs in the
design/applications/consultancy area than in production.
Aviation engineering. Basically divided into civil & military. UK is
still a major player here but again lots of jobs are short term contract
type jobs so you would need to be prepared to move about the world if
you didn't want to find yourself unemployed for long periods when
contracts finish.
Engineers in the UK do not get the recognition they deserve and are very
much down the bottom end of the pay scale chart when compared to the
other professions. So my reasons for not pursuing an engineering career
were basically worries about long term job opportunities and poor pay.
Both as pertinent today as they were in the 1970's!
We are about to enter a period of recession and job opportunities will
reduce accordingly in every sector. My advice for what it is
worth is to stick with the chemistry degree and then on completion
perhaps to take a second degree in Chemical or electronic engineering. A
1st in a chemistry degree from Oxford will open up a few doors in lots
of different companies. Most of the skills that I use on a day to day
basis have been acquired from doing the job rather than based on
knowledge I gained at University. The only other advice that I can offer
is to talk to as many people as possible and research job
opportunities from the papers etc. However you will find that for most
jobs advertised in the press companies are looking for experienced
people. Where these "experienced" people are supposed to gain their
experience from has always been a bit of a mystery to me.
Email Number 2:
"My previous email was a bit on the gloomy side as far as engineering
is concerned but there are plenty of exciting opportunities where the
UK could thrive in the future. Nanotechnology/engineering for example
is the sort of area I would love to be involved with and down at the
atomic scale chemistry is just as good a degree to have as any
engineering degree I would have thought. Probably not the sort of jobs
you are going to see advertised so R & D might be the way to get a
foothold there. There is bound to be something going on in & around
Oxford.
Engineering in the areas of pollution control and alternative energy
solutions including the "Holy Grail" of the efficient fuel cell are
also areas the UK could excel in but production would be carried out
in low wage cost zones so R & D /development/design & not forgetting
sales would be where the job opportunities lie."
Email Number 1:
"It would be interesting to know what percentage of both Chemical
engineering graduates & Engineering graduates actually have jobs that
involve "real engineering" on leaving Uni. many go on to take up jobs in
other sectors like accountancy or management etc.
Chemical engineering is declining in the UK as old plants are shut down
and new plants are built closer to either the major world markets in the
Pacific rim or in the middle east closer to the oil producing centres.
If you study chemical engineering you will probably find that there
are more job opportunities overseas than in the UK. The enquiries for
new fire systems for chemical plants that I have seen in recent years
have all come from the Middle East, Pacific rim, China & Russia. I have
also heard of companies that are unable to source chemicals from the UK
any longer & are having to import them.
My initial interest in engineering was with heavy mechanical engineering
i.e. gas turbines & large diesel engines for ships trains etc. The UK no
longer builds ships or trains in any significant quantities. This type
of work has transferred overseas to place like South Korea, China &
latterly India. This is where the jobs are going to be in the near
future for heavy engineering. I started an engineering science degree
which would have given me a wider scope for all types of engineering
opportunities however in the 1970's it was clear that all sectors of the
UK engineering industry were in decline.
Civil engineering is an industry which is more difficult to transfer
overseas with the exception of the design aspects however I would not
recommend Civil engineering as most engineers are on short term
contracts and civil engineering projects are the first to suffer when
there is a recession. So a civil engineer would probably expect to find
himself without a job on several occasions during his working life.
Mechanical engineering. There are still many mechanical engineering
opportunities in the UK but probably more on the design side. Again a
lot of mechanical engineering/production engineering jobs have gone
overseas to China, Eastern Europe, pacific rim, India etc and there will
be more to follow.
Electrical/Electronic engineering. Don't know too much about the job
opportunities. Nearly all basic electronic production is carried out
overseas. Larger bespoke packages such as control panels & skid mounted
systems still made in the UK. Again more likely to find jobs in the
design/applications/consultancy area than in production.
Aviation engineering. Basically divided into civil & military. UK is
still a major player here but again lots of jobs are short term contract
type jobs so you would need to be prepared to move about the world if
you didn't want to find yourself unemployed for long periods when
contracts finish.
Engineers in the UK do not get the recognition they deserve and are very
much down the bottom end of the pay scale chart when compared to the
other professions. So my reasons for not pursuing an engineering career
were basically worries about long term job opportunities and poor pay.
Both as pertinent today as they were in the 1970's!
We are about to enter a period of recession and job opportunities will
reduce accordingly in every sector. My advice for what it is
worth is to stick with the chemistry degree and then on completion
perhaps to take a second degree in Chemical or electronic engineering. A
1st in a chemistry degree from Oxford will open up a few doors in lots
of different companies. Most of the skills that I use on a day to day
basis have been acquired from doing the job rather than based on
knowledge I gained at University. The only other advice that I can offer
is to talk to as many people as possible and research job
opportunities from the papers etc. However you will find that for most
jobs advertised in the press companies are looking for experienced
people. Where these "experienced" people are supposed to gain their
experience from has always been a bit of a mystery to me.
Email Number 2:
"My previous email was a bit on the gloomy side as far as engineering
is concerned but there are plenty of exciting opportunities where the
UK could thrive in the future. Nanotechnology/engineering for example
is the sort of area I would love to be involved with and down at the
atomic scale chemistry is just as good a degree to have as any
engineering degree I would have thought. Probably not the sort of jobs
you are going to see advertised so R & D might be the way to get a
foothold there. There is bound to be something going on in & around
Oxford.
Engineering in the areas of pollution control and alternative energy
solutions including the "Holy Grail" of the efficient fuel cell are
also areas the UK could excel in but production would be carried out
in low wage cost zones so R & D /development/design & not forgetting
sales would be where the job opportunities lie."
Scroll to see replies
Sounds like such a pessimist! I'm currently doing a summer job with a civil/structural engineering consultancy and things don't seem that bad, in fact they are currently growing at a decent rate which I know many engineering consultancies are also. Nobody there seems to be talking about the recession - it probably won't hit them too hard anyway as they do a lot of overseas work and projects that are ongoing over a long period and already well underway for example high rise buildings. Apparently salaries have increased a LOT in the last five or six years as they try to attract new graduates (one guy, now an Associate, said that only six years ago he was on just 18k) and reportedly graduate starting salaries for civil and structural engineers are now higher than those for accountants, for the first time this year. They also can't be that hard up if they're willing to hire so many people for summer jobs even if we spend a lot of time not being very useful at all!
Actually some of what I said there was complete *******s... I sat in on a meeting today between some of the company's top tall buildings engineers where they were starting to get worried about the economic slowdown meaning jobs being cancelled etc. For example high-rise building projects where clients have halted construction after the first floor until they can find tenants to fill the building etc.
sharp910sh
s--t, crap why am I doing civil engineering thn at uni. good thing is that i could say transfer to an accountant degree, alot of the skills are transferable.
You dont need an accounting degree to be an accountant mate. A civil engineering degree is fine for getting in an accountancy firm. Furthermore, if you decide not to enter the engineering sector after graduation there is plenty of other jobs that you can get into with a civ eng degree e.g. investment banking, finance, consultancy, civil service, actuary etc.
Yeh I was told that at many open days and interviews. But TBH I look forward to doing Civil engineering, interesting subject. But at the end of the day I need food on the table and a nice tv, car etc. So if working as a civil engineer, I'll do something which pays real money. Like how much can a top end civil engineer end, such as a charted engineer earn?
sharp910sh
Yeh I was told that at many open days and interviews. But TBH I look forward to doing Civil engineering, interesting subject. But at the end of the day I need food on the table and a nice tv, car etc. So if working as a civil engineer, I'll do something which pays real money. Like how much can a top end civil engineer end, such as a charted engineer earn?
I hope you truly don't become an engineer you seem to be a real poser. People who generally study engineering have a real passion for the subject and the ones who do end up in IB and other useless financial areas (yes, useless in the sense that they cannot possibly add anything to society the way an engineer can) were clearly not passionate about their subject.
Yes you can throw a few anecdotes at me: "I knew this one guy who went to Imperial he built race cars in his spare time and now works for HSBC" or "I have this friend who was on NASAs secret space program while he was doing his degree - he now works for GoldmanSachs" but the overall statement is true. If you love engineering do engineering don't do it because it is a numerical degree that is transferable, then you might as well do something you really like instead of something "interesting".
So from your post I am to understand that money is your primary goal... why the **** are you going into engineering then?
Master Polhem
I hope you truly don't become an engineer you seem to be a real poser. People who generally study engineering have a real passion for the subject and the ones who do end up in IB and other useless financial areas (yes, useless in the sense that they cannot possibly add anything to society the way an engineer can) were clearly not passionate about their subject.
Yes you can throw a few anecdotes at me: "I knew this one guy who went to Imperial he built race cars in his spare time and now works for HSBC" or "I have this friend who was on NASAs secret space program while he was doing his degree - he now works for GoldmanSachs" but the overall statement is true. If you love engineering do engineering don't do it because it is a numerical degree that is transferable, then you might as well do something you really like instead of something "interesting".
So from your post I am to understand that money is your primary goal... why the **** are you going into engineering then?
Yes you can throw a few anecdotes at me: "I knew this one guy who went to Imperial he built race cars in his spare time and now works for HSBC" or "I have this friend who was on NASAs secret space program while he was doing his degree - he now works for GoldmanSachs" but the overall statement is true. If you love engineering do engineering don't do it because it is a numerical degree that is transferable, then you might as well do something you really like instead of something "interesting".
So from your post I am to understand that money is your primary goal... why the **** are you going into engineering then?
Look man, I was just saying if I can't get any jobs, I would have to look at another career. **** me I love engineering who do you think I am. I've been interesting in civil engineering for a loooong time, ie its my dream job. But at the end of the day you need to eat, so if you aren't getting any contracts then you need to find another job. Simple as.
Every uni I have been to they have said they need more engineers, so I'm not worried about money. But like the OP said there will be a decrease in engineering contracts. So what do you do you get a job, its finished you can't get another job. what do you do just sit and starve went till you get another job, or be active and use your skills you have acquired to find a more stable job.
sharp910sh
But at the end of the day you need to eat, so if you aren't getting any contracts then you need to find another job. Simple as.
No, if you have an engineering degree that means that you are clever enough to handle numbers. If you work as engineer you work because it is fun, there are plenty of low life draftsmen jobs out there that need filling up, if you work outside of the principle of enjoyment you will find very very soon that it is not worth doing something you dislike for the sake of money.
I know i did civil engineering as i didnt fancy doing maths as a degree for 4 years and, aye, a throughly enjoyed it thank you. Am now working in Morgan Stanley in Glasgow.
sharp910sh
Every uni I have been to they have said they need more engineers, so I'm not worried about money. But like the OP said there will be a decrease in engineering contracts. So what do you do you get a job, its finished you can't get another job. what do you do just sit and starve went till you get another job, or be active and use your skills you have acquired to find a more stable job.
Every uni I have been to they have said they need more engineers, so I'm not worried about money. But like the OP said there will be a decrease in engineering contracts. So what do you do you get a job, its finished you can't get another job. what do you do just sit and starve went till you get another job, or be active and use your skills you have acquired to find a more stable job.
1. The OP is an idiot who uses outdated anecdotal evidence.
There are 20,000 unfilled engineering positions TODAY in this country.
Just to take a few examples Jaguar Land Rover are hiring 600 people of which the majority are engineering. EADS Astrium UK are going to be hiring 1000+ engineers over the coming year. Do you honestly think the OP has the faintest idea of what he is talking about?
Try reading a proper engineering magazine and then look at the back... filled to the bursting point of job advertisements.
2. You are going by the premise that you'll do anything, even something wholly unsatisfying, as long as it earns you good money.
scottishlad
I know i did civil engineering as i didnt fancy doing maths as a degree for 4 years and, aye, a throughly enjoyed it thank you. Am now working in Morgan Stanley in Glasgow.
And you are a sad excuse for someone who has been through the educational establishment. Sorry.
Master Polhem
No, if you have an engineering degree that means that you are clever enough to handle numbers. If you work as engineer you work because it is fun, there are plenty of low life draftsmen jobs out there that need filling up, if you work outside of the principle of enjoyment you will find very very soon that it is not worth doing something you dislike for the sake of money.
I'm saying is if there are zero, yes zero jobs then you will need to find another. You may been the smartest person ever, but if there are no engineering jobs to put food on the table you need to find another job. so what you going to do, sit there with your calculator day in day out, typing numbers. A person with sense will say wait, I need some food, and get a job. Money can't make you happy, but having money is better than having none, right?
sharp910sh
I'm saying is if there are zero, yes zero jobs then you will need to find another. You may been the smartest person ever, but if there are no engineering jobs to put food on the table you need to find another job. so what you going to do, sit there with your calculator day in day out, typing numbers. A person with sense will say wait, I need some food, and get a job. Money can't make you happy, but having money is better than having none, right?
You are not in Zimbabwe why your whole point is moot.
Master Polhem
And you are a sad excuse for someone who has been through the educational establishment. Sorry.
I dont have any regrets moving away from my roots as i wouldnt have met ma gorgeous girlfriend at Morgan Stanley otherwise.
I actually worked as a civil engineer for two years, after I graduated, with Balfour Beatty. Having worked there I realised engineering wasnt for me and then I applied for an internship in an investment bank. I love my job but understand that its not for everyone!
scottishlad
'
I dont have any regrets moving away from my roots as i wouldnt have met ma gorgeous girlfriend at Morgan Stanley otherwise.
I actually worked as a civil engineer for two years, after I graduated, with Balfour Beatty. Having worked there I realised engineering wasnt for me and then I applied for an internship in an investment bank. I love my job but understand that its not for everyone!
I dont have any regrets moving away from my roots as i wouldnt have met ma gorgeous girlfriend at Morgan Stanley otherwise.
I actually worked as a civil engineer for two years, after I graduated, with Balfour Beatty. Having worked there I realised engineering wasnt for me and then I applied for an internship in an investment bank. I love my job but understand that its not for everyone!
What drives my physically mad is that 6 years ago when you started someone else, who cared for engineering properly and loved it, could have gotten your place instead. You could have gone of to do some low life subject like accountancy instead.
My point being is that we are spending far to much money on people who never intend to work as engineers - and it is that profession that is in a very severe recruitment drought. Which is why I think you should consider your options before you decide to embark upon a degree of this caliber.
sharp910sh
Well when I'm cruising in my nice car, I will be laughing.
And when you crash you will be reminiscing, in your hospital bed, about the days when you were a proper man: engineer, and you could actually have avoided that crash had you only invented that early warning system.
Master Polhem
What drives my physically mad is that 6 years ago when you started someone else, who cared for engineering properly and loved it, could have gotten your place instead. You could have gone of to do some low life subject like accountancy instead.
My point being is that we are spending far to much money on people who never intend to work as engineers - and it is that profession that is in a very severe recruitment drought. Which is why I think you should consider your options before you decide to embark upon a degree of this caliber.
My point being is that we are spending far to much money on people who never intend to work as engineers - and it is that profession that is in a very severe recruitment drought. Which is why I think you should consider your options before you decide to embark upon a degree of this caliber.
It's not just with engineering degrees though. I read somewhere (cant pinpoint where exactly) that there's a number of uni graduates who eventually become in a career which isn't relative to the degree they have.
Master Polhem
And when you crash you will be reminiscing, in your hospital bed, about the days when you were a proper man: engineer, and you could actually have avoided that crash had you only invented that early warning system.
Well I'm doing civil engineering, therefore we don't design "early warning systems".
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