B1544 – Reform of the Gender Recognition Act (2004) Watch

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Glaz
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#21
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#21
(Original post by shadowdweller)
A GRC is 100% reversible - you simply have to provide the same evidence for the gender you're wanting to be recognised as after again, same as applying for it the first time around! :yep:
Of course :yep:
However, I think Baron of Sealand was referring to, uhh, to use LiberOfLondon's words, "cutting your balls off". I'm not sure if that's reversible
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shadowdweller
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Glaz)
Of course :yep:
However, I think Baron of Sealand was referring to, uhh, to use LiberOfLondon's words, "cutting your balls off". I'm not sure if that's reversible
Most likely - but that's not really relevant to the topic at hand, as surgery is not decided solely by possession of a GRC!

I'm not fully sure on the reversibility of surgery, but only something like 0.09% of trans people 'de-transition' so it's incredibly uncommon.
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Glaz
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#23
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#23
(Original post by shadowdweller)
Most likely - but that's not really relevant to the topic at hand, as surgery is not decided solely by possession of a GRC!

I'm not fully sure on the reversibility of surgery, but only something like 0.09% of trans people 'de-transition' so it's incredibly uncommon.
Sounds good, thanks :hugs:
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quirky editor
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Connor27)
Nay - allowing children to be mutilated is a horribly regressive policy.
The bill makes no such provision. This is about gender recognition. Not transitioning.
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quirky editor
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#25
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#25
It is regrettable I was not informed about the tabling of this bill.
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LiberOfLondon
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Glaz)
Of course :yep:
However, I think Baron of Sealand was referring to, uhh, to use LiberOfLondon's words, "cutting your balls off". I'm not sure if that's reversible
I was referring to gender reassignment surgery which isn't reversible no matter whether the patient is MtF or FtM.
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Glaz
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#27
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#27
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
I was referring to gender reassignment surgery which isn't reversible no matter whether the patient is MtF or FtM.
Refer to post 22
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Good bloke
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#28
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#28
(Original post by shadowdweller)
Given it's currently the only way to be legally recognised as your acquired gender (as far as I'm aware) I don't think that repealing it would be beneficial without replacing it with a better alternative.
We are not legally recognised for our gender. If we were there would be dozens of variations, not just two. We are legally recognised for our sex. Except people with GRCs who have obtained a piece of paper that licenses them to lie about their sex.
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shadowdweller
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Good bloke)
We are not legally recognised for our gender. If we were there would be dozens of variations, not just two. We are legally recognised for our sex. Except people with GRCs who have obtained a piece of paper that licenses them to lie about their sex.
We are legally recognised for both male and female genders - granted, more should be recognised, but we are not at that point currently - if you are both legally and medically recognised as a certain gender and have provided evidence to that effect, then calling it 'lying' seems a tad rich.
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LiberOfLondon
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#30
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#30
(Original post by shadowdweller)
We are legally recognised for both male and female genders - granted, more should be recognised, but we are not at that point currently - if you are both legally and medically recognised as a certain gender and have provided evidence to that effect, then calling it 'lying' seems a tad rich.
You have confused gender and sex.
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Glaz
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#31
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#31
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
You have confused gender and sex.
Shadowdweller would be the last person to confuse gender and sex :lol:
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shadowdweller
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#32
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#32
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
You have confused gender and sex.
Strictly speaking we have legal recognition for both gender and sex in the UK - your birth certificate states your sex, but by the governments own definition a GRC allows your acquired gender to be legally recognised in the UK.
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Baron of Sealand
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#33
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#33
(Original post by shadowdweller)
The straightforward answer to this is that being transgender is completely independent from gender roles - and neither of your examples, nor any others, are mentioned in this bill in any form.
I disagree with officially recognizing someone's change in gender without the operation, but I acknowledge that voting in any way on this may not affect the former.

What is involved exactly with this certificate? What would this person need to do to get it and after getting it? I'm still not sure if it's something a minor should be able to do.
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SoggyCabbages
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#34
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#34
Lol nay.
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Jammy Duel
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#35
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#35
Question for those who believe that the solution to help those who wish to self mutilate is to do it for them (while probably refusing to cut off somebody's arm if they felt uncomfortable with it, and to do all you can to stop trivial self farm because self harm is bad), when we're reaching a point in time where there are sufficiently many people de-transitioning as it becomes apparent that the solution to their issues is not to say they're something they're not is the solution really to make it even faster to start transitioning in the first place, and allowing children to make such decisions?

When we live in an age where the Tavistock has faced 35 resignations in 3 years due to widespread belief that gender dysphoria is being overdiagnosed for fear of being labeled as transphobic if an honest diagnosis were given, where having issues with your sexuality makes you trans and where children are having their development arrested as a consequence should we not be standing back and saying "wait a minute..."?

When we live in a world where, by sheer coincidence, one family can foster/adopt two unrelated children who both supposedly suffer from gender dysphoria from an incredibly young age despite it being supposedly rare, and where there are studies suggesting a heard effect (can't find it atm) whereby when one person in a social group convinces themselves they're trans others will follow suit, just like with many other things during adolescence should we not be saying "wait a minute..."?

When those being diagnosed with gender dysphoria are massively disproportionately autistic, 35% in the case of the Tavistock Clinic with suggestions that this is not properly taken into account during diagnosis should we not be saying "wait a minute..."?

Of course the end of those "wait a minute"s will be "...you're a transphobe otherwise you would support this". This might not be the irreversible bit, it's just the first step there
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#36
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#36
(Original post by shadowdweller)
by the governments own definition a GRC allows your acquired gender to be legally recognised in the UK.
... as that person's sex. Which is why is is a legally-sanctioned lie (as sex cannot, in fact, change).

Gender is not recognised.
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
"wait a minute..."?
You are completely correct. This will be, as I have said before, a massive scandal in due course. I predict thousands of people will, eventually, sue clinics and individuals who have facilitated and encouraged all this mispractice of medicine. It is very reminiscent of the Cleveland child sex abuse scandal of the late 1980s, as well as the anti-vacination problems started by Andrew Wakefield.
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shadowdweller
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Baron of Sealand)
I disagree with officially recognizing someone's change in gender without the operation, but I acknowledge that voting in any way on this may not affect the former.

What is involved exactly with this certificate? What would this person need to do to get it and after getting it? I'm still not sure if it's something a minor should be able to do.
I can't give a full answer until tomorrow I'm afraid, as I'm busy this evening - but hopefully the below link will at least partially answer your question?

https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate
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Joleee
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#39
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#39
(Original post by shadowdweller)
There seems to be a significant misunderstanding here - getting a GRC does not require having surgery, nor does it mean you would automatically be able to have it. Reassignment surgery is something that would have to be approved by a care team, and cannot be decided solely by an individual, nor solely on the basis of having a GRC.

this^^ it's just a certificate. most trans people don’t even have surgery, which just goes to show our general misunderstanding of trans people (i know it’s an American source but couldn’t find a UK).

as a Canadian, where we already have non-binary birth certificates, i fully support this bill and i wager the real life UK will have this amended in 10 years time, which tends to be the time frame for UK to start catching up.
Last edited by Joleee; 1 month ago
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CatusStarbright
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#40
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#40
I don't agree with reducing the age to 16, as I think that this should be an adult decision. The rest of the provisions I support as I see absolutely no reason to force people to remain trapped in a state they don't wish to be in.
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