Worth working anymore? - Tories mandate to make work pay Watch

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vicvic38
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#41
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#41
(Original post by SteveyStack)
So I assume you want to cut the size of the NHS? Or increase class sizes? Or reduce care for the elderly? What I’m saying is that by increasing benefits you reduce tax receipts which have to be made up somewhere so where is it going to be? Life is full of tough choices but at least it is better than 100 years ago.

Here’s to hoping in a hundred years time it’ll be better still
Increasing school class sizes doesn't make people die?

And no. I don't want these things to happen. In my first post I outright say everyone should pay more tax so these things don't need to happen.
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SteveyStack
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#42
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(Original post by vicvic38)
Increasing school class sizes doesn't make people die?

And no. I don't want these things to happen. In my first post I outright say everyone should pay more tax so these things don't need to happen.
It does long term as people are less educated and this country think well to short term imo.

People act as if taxes are a quick fix but if they were that good everyone would have upped them. There has to be a balance and we haven’t got it as wrong as some. There may be an argument for slight taxation increases but not drastic as these have always reduced tax receipts when implemented.
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borisj
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#43
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#43
(Original post by ByEeek)
This is a myth perpetuated by tabloid newspapers like the Mail and Express. I challenge you to find just one person on benefits who feels they have it good.

And you are more than welcome to come and talk to the kids I teach who get shuttled from mouldy B+B room to moukdy B+B room where they sleep with their family in one room.

Seriously, please find me one person living their best life on benefits today. Do you know what people on benefits actually even get?
Clearly they must be getting more than the Eastern European migrants whose jobs they don't want to do but post brexit should be forced to do. Why is it they work but our own lazy home grown nationals don't want to?
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borisj
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#44
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(Original post by vicvic38)
Increasing school class sizes doesn't make people die?

And no. I don't want these things to happen. In my first post I outright say everyone should pay more tax so these things don't need to happen.
How's about making those on welfare who have never paid any tax pay some once in their lives?

Why are working people punished for choosing the right way in life. There should be more incentive to work than just purely pride.

When generations of families have never worked in millions of homes that is a culture of welfare dependency which can only be broken by cutting the umbilical cord of buffet benefits.

Boris has the mandate to slash welfare further and put more money into pockets of working people,
If the public wanted unlimited welfare and expansion of welfare dependency they would have voted labour and look at what happened there! They got beaten up probably never to be seen again.
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borisj
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#45
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(Original post by PQ)
(Original post by PQ)I’ll give you a hand.

Your “source” is explained in detail here. It’s a source for a benefit that no longer exists (Incapacity Benefit) using data selecting one condition listed when a claimant first submitted a claim. And most importantly it’s using numbers of claimants from 2010/11...ie before austerity was implemented and all IB claimants were transferred onto ESA or UC.
https://fullfact.org/news/how-many-h...e-more-decade/
Doesnt matter if its pre, post or inter austerity the fact that there are still 3 mill workless households as per the ONS says to me it has had zero impact period and more cuts are needed to force this bunch off their butt into employment.

Doesnt matter if its ESA/UC/IB or whatever acronym you want for dishing out free cash the fact that you can have people claiming this benefit for years unchecked with ACNE just what a messed up system it is and how major slashing of its generosity needed.

The average pre-tax income in this country is 26k or a bit more past few years. On this wage you pay tax and cant afford to live in Central London. However if you go on welfare pay no tax and essentially are an adsorbent sponge of other peoples cash you get a rent free apartment in Central London. How does that work? So essentially they can sit at home watch sky all day while laughing at fools around them who work yet have to commute from the boonies as thats the only place they can afford to live after paying tax!!

My suggestion Boris get rid of these folk living in places that working folk cant afford and give them to people that pay tax, work and do the right thing yet could never to afford to live in central london.

You have the mandate, we gave you the majority nows the time to finish this sector of society off once and for all.
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Capitalist_Lamb
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#46
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I like to think of it as a mutualistic relationship which is where both parties get someone out of it.

The rich need the poor to make money and the poor need the rich to make money.

If you take away the rich there would be no-one employing anyone and if you take away the poor there would be no-one to do any jobs. In any society you need the rich and the poor to thrive imo.
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Quady
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#47
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(Original post by borisj)
Given that austerity didnt make it beneficial to work as opposed to choosing welfare clearly it didnt really exist in the first place so the question remains why bother working when welfare is a better option than average income jobs.
If we do this will you get a job and stop spunging?
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Quady
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#48
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(Original post by borisj)
Doesnt matter if its pre, post or inter austerity the fact that there are still 3 mill workless households as per the ONS says to me it has had zero impact period and more cuts are needed to force this bunch off their butt into employment.

Doesnt matter if its ESA/UC/IB or whatever acronym you want for dishing out free cash the fact that you can have people claiming this benefit for years unchecked with ACNE just what a messed up system it is and how major slashing of its generosity needed.

The average pre-tax income in this country is 26k or a bit more past few years. On this wage you pay tax and cant afford to live in Central London. However if you go on welfare pay no tax and essentially are an adsorbent sponge of other peoples cash you get a rent free apartment in Central London. How does that work? So essentially they can sit at home watch sky all day while laughing at fools around them who work yet have to commute from the boonies as thats the only place they can afford to live after paying tax!!

My suggestion Boris get rid of these folk living in places that working folk cant afford and give them to people that pay tax, work and do the right thing yet could never to afford to live in central london.

You have the mandate, we gave you the majority nows the time to finish this sector of society off once and for all.
So just to check, what are you going to get the pensioners working as? Brickies?
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Quady
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#49
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(Original post by borisj)
Gave you an ons stat 3 million households where noone works in this country! That not a good enough source from a national authority or is 3 mill not enough to be significant in your eyes?
Neither of my parents work and have no plans to. They both claim welfare.

My dad is 84 in March and hasn't worked full time since 1994. My mum (70) is just going to fetch me a glass of champagne. She hasn't worked full time since 1983.

Would you take the champagne away just like Corbyn would?
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#50
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(Original post by vicvic38)
Increasing school class sizes doesn't make people die?

And no. I don't want these things to happen. In my first post I outright say everyone should pay more tax so these things don't need to happen.
Disagree with having to pay more tax what we need is a better tax system first (I'll be able to explain it) THEN we can raise taxes
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borisj
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Capitalist_Lamb)
I like to think of it as a mutualistic relationship which is where both parties get someone out of it.

The rich need the poor to make money and the poor need the rich to make money.

If you take away the rich there would be no-one employing anyone and if you take away the poor there would be no-one to do any jobs. In any society you need the rich and the poor to thrive imo.
You make the fatal presumption that the poor work given that the definition of poverty in this country appears to be measured by the number of iphones you can own with other peoples cash and your sky package.

Remember that both Alan Sugar and Branson were once 'poor' but through their own efforts became mega rich they could have gone down the welfare route and been comfortable but they chose not yet the welfare gang see fit to want to permanently have their hands in the wallets of the guys in the constant search for other peoples cash.
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adam271
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#52
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There is an argument for people abusing the system.
But it's not something I really care about the amount of money they are screwing the government for are peanuts compared to what some coporations legally avoid via tax avoidance. It does not affect me, so I do not care.

I do think that it's grossly unfair that some disability claimants have been forced to regularly have check ups to prove they are still disabled. I.e people with Celebral Palasy or Down Syndrome. Also these people are tested by people who are not medical professionals and the questions are very tricky and designed to trip them up. Which is especially cruel as some have cognition problems.
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imlikeahermit
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#53
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It’s interesting that usually the first people who complain about immigrants stealing jobs in this country, are those that are quite happy to sit on the benefits system, and live off the taxpayer. I mean, have you seen the clip of some of them. It’s disgusting.
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ByEeek
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#54
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(Original post by SteveyStack)
So I assume you want to cut the size of the NHS? Or increase class sizes? Or reduce care for the elderly? What I’m saying is that by increasing benefits you reduce tax receipts which have to be made up somewhere so where is it going to be?
It may sound counter productive but this is not necessarily the case. By allowing people the money they need to live and function in society you give them opportunities to spend money in businesses which the thrive, employ people and grow the economy.

There was a town the US, I forget which, that increased the minimum wage. Contrary to fears, the local restaurant trade boomed because all of a sudden more people had money to spend.
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borisj
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#55
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#55
Spot on so why not stop their benefits then they will have to get a job right? Even a job a immigrant does!!
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Quady
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#56
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(Original post by borisj)
Spot on so why not stop their benefits then they will have to get a job right? Even a job a immigrant does!!
So when your benefits are stopped you will get a job?
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Quady
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#57
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It’s interesting that usually the first people who complain about immigrants stealing jobs in this country, are those that are quite happy to sit on the benefits system, and live off the taxpayer. I mean, have you seen the clip of some of them. It’s disgusting.
No I've not seen the clip.
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Quady
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#58
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(Original post by borisj)
Remember that both Alan Sugar and Branson were once 'poor'
I seem to remember Branson went to a Surrey prep school and his grandad was a Privy Councillor....

Sugar was a statistician at the Ministry of Education no?
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Quady
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#59
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#59
(Original post by borisj)
Spot on so why not stop their benefits then they will have to get a job right? Even a job a immigrant does!!
Will you get a job if your benefits are stopped?
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Quady
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#60
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It’s interesting that usually the first people who complain about immigrants stealing jobs in this country, are those that are quite happy to sit on the benefits system, and live off the taxpayer. I mean, have you seen the clip of some of them. It’s disgusting.
No, which clip?
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