richard10012
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 3 weeks ago
#1
Why do the U.K. train fares keep going up? Germany has announced they are lowering their train fares due to climate change. Surely one day trains will just become too expensive and most people will either drive to work or get job closer to home. Do we have the most expensive fares in Europe and why? Can we do anything about it?
0
reply
Jammy Duel
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#2
Report 3 weeks ago
#2
It's this thing called "inflation" and the fact that we do not highly subsidise out rail network like many of the continental countries, such as Germany, do. In the UK the user of the service pays for it, not the public at large.

We also don't actually have the highest fares unless you're an idiot and buy at the last minute, and this is amplified when you consider the subsidies which merely make continental services appear cheaper.

And finally your point on work: you're not talking about people getting the train to go to stack shelves in Tesco, you're talking about people using the train to work at a law firm, or a bank, or the civil service, i.e. high paying jobs that you can justify that sort of commute for.
0
reply
Karisa96
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3
Report 3 weeks ago
#3
I commute on a daily bases, and think it is disgusting that the fares go up yearly, and if anything the standard of service declines yet they have the front to stand up and try and justify it.
Having said that they know they have most of us commuters over a barrel as there is really no serious competition.
0
reply
ibyghee
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#4
Report 3 weeks ago
#4
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
It's this thing called "inflation" and the fact that we do not highly subsidise out rail network like many of the continental countries, such as Germany, do. In the UK the user of the service pays for it, not the public at large.

We also don't actually have the highest fares unless you're an idiot and buy at the last minute, and this is amplified when you consider the subsidies which merely make continental services appear cheaper.

And finally your point on work: you're not talking about people getting the train to go to stack shelves in Tesco, you're talking about people using the train to work at a law firm, or a bank, or the civil service, i.e. high paying jobs that you can justify that sort of commute for.
I go university and go on train everyday, just like many others. I see a few secondary school people too actually.
0
reply
Jammy Duel
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#5
Report 3 weeks ago
#5
(Original post by ibyghee)
I go university and go on train everyday, just like many others. I see a few secondary school people too actually.
Exceptions don't change the fact that this is the case generally, there used to be a useful ONS report for this which took each indirect benefit (education, NHS, etc) and breaks down by income level how much value you get out of it, rail transport was either the only category or one of two categories where as income increased the benefit in kind increased. Annoyingly I can't find it.

And is that train to uni as in franchised network or metro network?
0
reply
Jammy Duel
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#6
Report 3 weeks ago
#6
(Original post by Karisa96)
I commute on a daily bases, and think it is disgusting that the fares go up yearly, and if anything the standard of service declines yet they have the front to stand up and try and justify it.
Having said that they know they have most of us commuters over a barrel as there is really no serious competition.
so you believe that as the price to operate the trains increases the prices should fall or at the very least not change at all? The outcome there is you get gouged at the start of a franchise and heavily subsidised at the end, you also wouldn't have anybody wanting to run any of the railways which means a return to British Rail, a system so bad that the railways looked to be in terminal decline when it came to passenger usage.

The competition is in the tendering process, not the operation, although it can be argued that there is competition on the railways, on some parts it is even direct competition.
0
reply
ibyghee
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#7
Report 3 weeks ago
#7
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Exceptions don't change the fact that this is the case generally, there used to be a useful ONS report for this which took each indirect benefit (education, NHS, etc) and breaks down by income level how much value you get out of it, rail transport was either the only category or one of two categories where as income increased the benefit in kind increased. Annoyingly I can't find it.

And is that train to uni as in franchised network or metro network?
I think metro? not sure of the difference. Pretty sure its metro. The ones you buy a ticket last min at the station.
0
reply
Rakas21
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#8
Report 3 weeks ago
#8
(Original post by richard10012)
Why do the U.K. train fares keep going up? Germany has announced they are lowering their train fares due to climate change. Surely one day trains will just become too expensive and most people will either drive to work or get job closer to home. Do we have the most expensive fares in Europe and why? Can we do anything about it?
In the UK we largely find railway infrastructure through ticket sales whereas in Europe the taxpayer is on the hook. When people argue for lower rail fares while they want the network expanded they are really suggesting is that people like me or your parents should be paying your rail fare.

There are other issues such as moderation of competition clauses in franchise agreements and also the fact that we have a off-on peak pricing system but these are less important.

Ultimately, if you want to expand the rail network while keeping the existing loss making branch lines then somebody has to pay for it and it is fairer that the rail passenger pays it than the person who walks to work through the tax system.
0
reply
Jammy Duel
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#9
Report 3 weeks ago
#9
(Original post by ibyghee)
I think metro? not sure of the difference. Pretty sure its metro. The ones you buy a ticket last min at the station.
That applies to both...
0
reply
ibyghee
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#10
Report 3 weeks ago
#10
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
That applies to both...
I dunno, explain me the difference.
0
reply
Quady
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#11
Report 2 weeks ago
#11
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
It's this thing called "inflation"
Which is caused by folk raising prices.
Last edited by Quady; 2 weeks ago
0
reply
ByEeek
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#12
Report 2 weeks ago
#12
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
It's this thing called "inflation" and the fact that we do not highly subsidise out rail network like many of the continental countries, such as Germany, do. In the UK the user of the service pays for it, not the public at large.

We also don't actually have the highest fares unless you're an idiot and buy at the last minute, and this is amplified when you consider the subsidies which merely make continental services appear cheaper.

And finally your point on work: you're not talking about people getting the train to go to stack shelves in Tesco, you're talking about people using the train to work at a law firm, or a bank, or the civil service, i.e. high paying jobs that you can justify that sort of commute for.
I think that's a bit unfair. People commute for all manner of jobs.

And fares don't rise by inflation. They rise by the highest measure of consumer inflation plus a radom percentage.

And the value for consumers is woeful. In November my own Northern Fail only ran 41% of train on time!

And they are not cheap. If you commute you can not take advantage of cheap fares.

And as a nation expensive transport helps no obe. It reduces employment opportunities which in turn reduces the ability of the economy to adapt and thrive. The reason London is thriving is partly down to massive public investment in excellent transport infrastructure.
0
reply
mike44
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#13
Report 1 week ago
#13
The reason is we are one of only a tiny handful of countries in the world who believe public transport should be run for profit - not just railways but most bus companies in the country too. I believe the west midlands used to have one of, if not the most profitable bus routes in the world.

Having said that, our railways are 1000% better since we moved towards privatised companies despite the cost of tickets / problems of today.
Last edited by mike44; 1 week ago
0
reply
Quady
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#14
Report 1 week ago
#14
(Original post by mike44)
The reason is we are one of only a tiny handful of countries in the world who believe public transport should be run for profit - not just railways but most bus companies in the country too.
Ok.

And that's different to Ryanair how?
0
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#15
Report 1 week ago
#15
Because we have ploughed billions into HS2 which is just a vanity project, when in actual fact, the money would have been much better spent upgrading current systems and refurbishing rolling stocks, leading to cheaper fares, rather than shaving off 20 minutes on a trip to London.
0
reply
Quady
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#16
Report 1 week ago
#16
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Because we have ploughed billions into HS2 which is just a vanity project, when in actual fact, the money would have been much better spent upgrading current systems and refurbishing rolling stocks, leading to cheaper fares, rather than shaving off 20 minutes on a trip to London.
HS2 will put the GREAT back into GREAT BRITIAN.
It's only a few billion.
It just needs extending to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
0
reply
Kitten in boots
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#17
Report 1 week ago
#17
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
It's this thing called "inflation" and the fact that we do not highly subsidise out rail network like many of the continental countries, such as Germany, do. In the UK the user of the service pays for it, not the public at large.

We also don't actually have the highest fares unless you're an idiot and buy at the last minute, and this is amplified when you consider the subsidies which merely make continental services appear cheaper.
You miss a very important point that is inconvenient for your argument. British train companies face higher operating costs than many of their European counterparts. You could attribute this to mismanagement by the private companies or gross incompetence by the Conservative government. Either way, the British commuter has to pay.

And finally your point on work: you're not talking about people getting the train to go to stack shelves in Tesco, you're talking about people using the train to work at a law firm, or a bank, or the civil service, i.e. high paying jobs that you can justify that sort of commute for.
o

Today on TSR I learnt that all those men on my early morning commuter train carrying hard hats and wearing high vis are in fact bankers. One day I hope you develop the intelligence to realise those on low incomes also have to commute and losing 10-15% of your salary on work-related transport costs means making ends meet becomes difficult when you earn £9 an hour.
3
reply
mike44
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#18
Report 1 week ago
#18
(Original post by Quady)
Ok.

And that's different to Ryanair how?
Ryanair isn't considered 'public transport' neither is British Airways or any other privately owned airways company. I'm confused as to what you are asking / point you wish to make? Please expand
0
reply
mike44
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#19
Report 1 week ago
#19
(Original post by Quady)
HS2 will put the GREAT back into GREAT BRITIAN.
It's only a few billion.
It just needs extending to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
HS2 IS a complete waste of money. All it will do is ensure more 'brain drain to London. It won't build business and jobs up in Birmingham. It just takes the talent from there and moves it to London. A proper decision on the railways would have been to improve the lines and other infrastructure between small northern towns and then gradually bring it south. That would show the govt being true about combating this London centric theme we have had in this country for centuries.
0
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#20
Report 1 week ago
#20
(Original post by Quady)
HS2 will put the GREAT back into GREAT BRITIAN.
It's only a few billion.
It just needs extending to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
We’re upto £88bn now. That’s £4.4bn per minute saved, meanwhile, on our currently built railways things are failing left right and centre, trains still in service that should have been taken out years ago. It’s a shambles. What a waste of money.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

What's stopping you doing a masters?

It's too expensive (4)
28.57%
My career doesn't need one (1)
7.14%
I'm sick of studying (3)
21.43%
I can't find a course I want to do (0)
0%
I don't know enough about them (1)
7.14%
Nothing, I'm going to do it! (5)
35.71%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed