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    Did anybody watch the program last night on BBC 1 about benifit fraud? There was this single mum (obviously) on there who got caught having some lady stay at her house paying rent etc. while she was recieving £110 a week free money, on top of a free flat and so on. When she was caught they didn't even take her benefits off her, they made her pay back £1100 in back payments off at £9 per week! All through the program she was saying 'I don't want to work how dare they try and make me, these times with my daughter are special', she then went on to say 'how dare they cut down my benefits, if they do that i'll have to ask my friends for money or even work and that's not nice for me is it.' This whole program just made me really angry because she was on benefits with there being no chance she would ever not be, despite being able to work. Her mum was also on benefits and so was her sister. Chances are her children will be too... Why are we funding families like this existence? Furthermore why are we effectively paying them to expand their families? How can we remove this burden from our society?
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    god knows...concentration camps?
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    Benefits should exist only to prevent people literally dying - which would be a direct breach of their liberty of course.

    Any more than that is in fact a breach on the liberties of the tax payers. I hate this benefit culture, recently I would have supported it but I have 'seen the light'.
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    Hmm now, I do think - especially if her daughter is under secondary age - that she should have the option to stay at home with her. I hate how all Mums (single or not nowadays) are expected to dump their kids on babysitters and work. I know some choose to, but I do think it should be optional.

    You're funding them because else it's the kid who suffers. She never said she WANTED to expand her family, many don't.

    Don't get me wrong, this woman shouldn't have done what she did, but I can understand it, benefits aren't much to live on. Of course if she was getting £110 week, why she couldn't live on that plus top-up benefits, god only knows.
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    I absolutely hate benefit cheats, they make me so angry. I would love to be one of those people that follows up tip-offs and catches them. That's one of the jobs I have as a back-up plan in case the whole languages thing goes tits up. I don't know what they'd do to make the whole thing harder...maybe instead of just giving out money, they should give them food vouchers or the family could tell the council what they need if they want to buy something new and the council could approve it and check that they really need it.
    That would take ages though, not sure the council would want to put in that kind of effort.
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    i cant stand benefit frauders, but can completely understand single parent familys with children under 5 on benefits. Simply because a child minder earns more per hour than the mum would on the minimum wage.

    once we went to school, my mum got a job; 25 hours a week during school time... there is no reason why every other single parent cannot do that.
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    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    Benefits should exist only to prevent people literally dying - which would be a direct breach of their liberty of course.

    Any more than that is in fact a breach on the liberties of the tax payers. I hate this benefit culture, recently I would have supported it but I have 'seen the light'.
    Valid viewpoint but then presumably you don't do the student loan thing or your parents have child benifit...?
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    (Original post by GemmyMonster)
    Hmm now, I do think - especially if her daughter is under secondary age - that she should have the option to stay at home with her.
    Not at my expense, or the expense of any other people.

    If she got herself into her situation that's upto her - now yes she might not like her situation, having the choice between seeing her kid or working, but I fail to see why the right thing to do is to then STEAL money from other people and hand it over to her - people who have made the choice to work, often at the expense of spending much time with their loved ones.

    Socialism/the welfare state punishes the innocent far too much.
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    Besides that, how do you define needed?!

    Are new clothes needed? How do you tell? Some people go through them faster than others.

    What about a PC? Technically no, but I'd have been unable to get my GCSEs without them as we had to type our coursework up and I couldn't do it in school (yes rare circumstances, but it happens). How much fuel is defined as needed? What we're meant to use is well under what we do, as Dad literally cannot walk even down to the shop.

    And are people are benefits meant to have nothing they don't need? So no pets, no jewellery, no christmas presents, no birthday presents, no.. nothing, really? A bare house with 1 bed and 1 chair per person, a cooker, fridge freezer? I mean you don't need a TV to live, but for disabled people TVs and computers are their entertainment.

    The system yes would stop cheats, but would harm other people too.


    EDIT: But when she chooses, it's not her who loses out, it's her daughter. You'd rather her daughter is on the streets when her Mum has to work full days, than at home with no working Mum? Yep, more kids smoking and drinking outside ASDA, just what we need.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Valid viewpoint but then presumably you don't do the student loan thing or your parents have child benifit...?
    I am against student loans, and so many people going to university.

    I don't think that makes me a hypocrite for using a student loan or for going to uni. I mean it's not like I made a comment such as "this person is terrible, hang her" because I think it is fair play to be honest. If a government creates a flawed system that can be taken advantage of, why not take advantage, that's individualism for you.

    The change needs to come from the top, and the blame comes from the top, the government needs to realise that in trying to control all aspects of our lives "for our own good" it's constantly creating more and more problems.
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    (Original post by GemmyMonster)
    Hmm now, I do think - especially if her daughter is under secondary age - that she should have the option to stay at home with her. I hate how all Mums (single or not nowadays) are expected to dump their kids on babysitters and work. I know some choose to, but I do think it should be optional.

    You're funding them because else it's the kid who suffers. She never said she WANTED to expand her family, many don't.

    Don't get me wrong, this woman shouldn't have done what she did, but I can understand it, benefits aren't much to live on. Of course if she was getting £110 week, why she couldn't live on that plus top-up benefits, god only knows.
    It's not my fault that this woman was extremely unselective with who she had a child with, and she's not adding any intelligence or quality of life being at home with the child. At the end of the day if people like this weren't being paid for and had to work taxes would be lower and people who aren't scum could work less and be with their children more. And no I don't think she should be allowed a tv, she should have a set amount of food bought for her and living on benifits should be such a painful existence that every fibre of her being should want to go and work; as it stands a lot of people live rather comfortably for free and do so for their entire lives.
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    So you think anyone working class shouldn't get to uni? Because without loans, they just won't go. And people can't help the class they were born into.

    I'm guessing your parents are middle class, right?

    Well why should I lose out on uni just because my Dad's disabled? It's not his fault, it's not mine. And being working class doesn't mean I'm less smart than someone else, does it.


    What about those who genuinely can't work then? Should they get no TV, computers, any luxuries?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    It's not my fault that this woman was extremely unselective with who she had a child with, and she's not adding any intelligence or quality of life being at home with the child. At the end of the day if people like this weren't being paid for and had to work taxes would be lower and people who aren't scum could work less and be with their children more. And no I don't think she should be allowed a tv, she should have a set amount of food bought for her and living on benifits should be such a painful existence that every fibre of her being should want to go and work; as it stands a lot of people live rather comfortably for free and do so for their entire lives.
    Legalising drugs, anti-benefits ... why the hell are you in the group "labour". :eek:
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    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    Not at my expense, or the expense of any other people.

    If she got herself into her situation that's upto her - now yes she might not like her situation, having the choice between seeing her kid or working, but I fail to see why the right thing to do is to then STEAL money from other people and hand it over to her - people who have made the choice to work, often at the expense of spending much time with their loved ones.

    Socialism/the welfare state punishes the innocent far too much.
    This is an extreme situation, but is it really fair to punish her child just because of its parent’s mistakes. If you took benefits away from these families the children would not stand much of a chance of escaping the poverty that they were born into in the first place. They are already at a major disadvantage in terms of life chances. If you take away benefits then they haven't got much hope at all.

    I do see where you’re coming from but capitalism is not a fair system on it's own, benefits are there to make the playing field a bit more equal.
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    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    Legalising drugs, anti-benefits ... why the hell are you in the group "labour". :eek:
    Am I still in that lol? To be honest I can't categorise my self in to any political parties, none of them are good for me or any of my family, we just get screwed. I don't see why there isn't a party that holds my view points, I agree with some select parts of each parties strategies, even the green party, but I can't bring myself to vote for any of them because they're all just vote grabbing contradictory asswipes.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Did anybody watch the program last night on BBC 1 about benifit fraud? There was this single mum (obviously) on there who got caught having some lady stay at her house paying rent etc. while she was recieving £110 a week free money, on top of a free flat and so on. When she was caught they didn't even take her benefits off her, they made her pay back £1100 in back payments off at £9 per week! All through the program she was saying 'I don't want to work how dare they try and make me, these times with my daughter are special', she then went on to say 'how dare they cut down my benefits, if they do that i'll have to ask my friends for money or even work and that's not nice for me is it.' This whole program just made me really angry because she was on benefits with there being no chance she would ever not be, despite being able to work. Her mum was also on benefits and so was her sister. Chances are her children will be too... Why are we funding families like this existence? Furthermore why are we effectively paying them to expand their families? How can we remove this burden from our society?
    I've just been talking about this story to my mum, and she says that when she was growing up only one girl had a mother that went out to work. All the others stayed home and the dads were the main providers.

    Yet a generation later we are ****ging off women who actually want to stay at home with their children. The fact that she is a single parent is irrelevant.

    I wouldn't want to live in a country that orders mothers out to work when they would prefer to stay at home and look after their children. And I strongly believe that children actually need a parent on tap the majority of the time. And I don't think that just applies to young children either.

    I know that when I have children I will want to stay with them. I don't want to be one of those parents who shower their kids with the latest toys and gadgets but never has five minutes to talk to them or to play a game with them.
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    (Original post by fivebyfive)
    This is an extreme situation, but is it really fair to punish her child just because of its parent’s mistakes. If you took benefits away from these families the children would not stand much of a chance of escaping the poverty that they were born into in the first place. They are already at a major disadvantage in terms of life chances. If you take away benefits then they haven't got much hope at all.

    I do see where you’re coming from but capitalism is not a fair system on it's own, benefits are there to make the playing field a bit more equal.
    If your parents are on benifits there is an extremely high chance you will end up on benefits, the circle very rarely gets broken; maybe out of the 10 children or so they have 1 will get a part time job at some point but that's still unlikely. I seriously question why people are having children they can't afford and why we are paying the most useless section of society to keep reproducing children with lower IQs who contribute nothing but more children in adulthood.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    as it stands a lot of people live rather comfortably for free
    Have you ever even lived on benefits? Believe me, it's not comfortable at all. I know some people on benefits always seem to have cash, which puzzles me, because they're probably working or something.

    I know this depends on various thing,s but we get less to live on per fortnight than anyone we know spends on food for a week. That's easy?


    I hate benefit cheats as much as the next person, as if people were honest, people wouldn't have to pay as much tax or it could be spent on other things, AND benefits would actually be able to rise a bit with inflation. Win-win.

    The unfortunate thing is, it's hard to make it tight enough to stop people, without harming others.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Did anybody watch the program last night on BBC 1 about benifit fraud? There was this single mum (obviously) on there who got caught having some lady stay at her house paying rent etc. while she was recieving £110 a week free money, on top of a free flat and so on. When she was caught they didn't even take her benefits off her, they made her pay back £1100 in back payments off at £9 per week! All through the program she was saying 'I don't want to work how dare they try and make me, these times with my daughter are special', she then went on to say 'how dare they cut down my benefits, if they do that i'll have to ask my friends for money or even work and that's not nice for me is it.' This whole program just made me really angry because she was on benefits with there being no chance she would ever not be, despite being able to work. Her mum was also on benefits and so was her sister. Chances are her children will be too... Why are we funding families like this existence? Furthermore why are we effectively paying them to expand their families? How can we remove this burden from our society?
    I didnt see the programme unfortunately. I agree with the last three sentances of your post though. This type of culture really gets my goat!!. My husband works a 60 hour week at work just to keep the likes of these. There are lots of people like that in the area I live in, I just dont agree with it at all. Yes we *are* paying for them to expand their families too and these kids are being born into a life of benefits, and then the government want to stop child poverty?.....cant they see that by giving these people grants, either from the social fund or whatever, they are effectively incouraging it!!!!. These kids will grow up and do exactly the same as their parents did.
    I dont know if there is an effective way to stop it though.

    I would just like to add that early on in our marriage my husband was out of work and we had to live on what tiny benefits we could.........we hated it!. It was never a life, more an existance and I really dont know how some people can live like it indefinitely.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Am I still in that lol? To be honest I can't categorise my self in to any political parties, none of them are good for me or any of my family, we just get screwed. I don't see why there isn't a party that holds my view points, I agree with some select parts of each parties strategies, even the green party, but I can't bring myself to vote for any of them because they're all just vote grabbing contradictory asswipes.
    If a party had the same view points as you, only you would vote for it...
    Go set it up!
 
 
 
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