M573 – Diplomatic Relations with Iran motion Watch

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Glaz
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#81
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#81
(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
soft loonies!
Unfortunately that assessment is also an assessment of the US...
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SoggyCabbages
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Glaz)
Unfortunately that assessment is also an assessment of the US...
No, it isn't.
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lyer_in_hellfyre
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Cabin19)
Prepare for War.
Iran has just announced its sent missiles to US base in Iraq killing an estimated 20 USA servicemen . US has scrambled jets from UAE, Iran has said if these attack Iran then they will attack UAE. How shall the UK respond?
I thought UAE was neutral in all this brouhaha
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Miss Maddie
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#84
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#84
The bully has decided to keep fighting. The teachers are doing nothing. It is time for the victim to flex its muscles and gives its B bombers a run out. The offensive capacity of a bully needs to be destroyed. Whilst they are there, some should be donated to the Israeli Defence Force.
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Jammy Duel
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Joleee)
what peace tho? are we in direct threat? who says the US, and whomever they have as allies, cannot accomplish whatever they are trying to accomplish on their own?

i understand you are passionate about this, and thank you for raising the argument, but i am not quick to jump into bed with anyone in my personal life nor am i into any other country's politics. i think you are being premature.
What peace? The peace we are living in now, what war are we engaged in? The only combat operations we are currently involved in that I can think og is Operation Shader, and even that is basically wound up now. We obviously have standard deployments in the Falklands, lots of training deployments and deployments for military exercises, but not combat deployments, despite this the defence budget, excluding depreciation, for the 2020-21 will still be £41.3bn plus £2.1bn for the intelligence services. Soldiers get paid the same whether deployed or sat on base in the UK; ammunition costs the same whether it's being fired on the range or on the battlefield; a ship doesn't become cheaper to buy just because you plan on leaving it in harbour
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Jammy Duel
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#86
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#86
(Original post by CatusStarbright)
Nay, I do not approve of the UK just bandwagoning blindly with the US and I am uncomfortable with Trump's warmongering.
So it is your view that when attacked people should sit idly by and sing kumbaya in the hopes it doesn't happen again?
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Jammy Duel
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Glaz)
Unfortunately that assessment is also an assessment of the US...
Erm...the US aren't the ones that go soft and let bullies win because the easy way is to let yourself be punched in the gut over and over again
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04MR17
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
So it is your view that when attacked people should sit idly by and sing kumbaya in the hopes it doesn't happen again?
That's my view.
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Jammy Duel
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#89
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(Original post by 04MR17)
That's my view.
And that is how your Hitlers, Stalins, Pinochets etc rule the world, by people like you effectively killing yourselves no questions asked
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Baron of Sealand
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#90
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#90
(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Supporting a two state solution is antisemitic.
So a majority of Israel are antisemitic?
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Jammy Duel
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#91
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#91
And of course we now seem to have credible reason to believe that Iran might be responsible for the murder of, among those of other nationalities, British civilians. Naturally the wet towels will continue to say we should just ask them nicely to stop
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The Mogg
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Naturally the wet towels will continue to say we should just ask them nicely to stop
What do you mean? Surely Boris telling Iran "oi lads can you cool it down please" is making them reconsider any further retaliation.
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CatusStarbright
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#93
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#93
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
So it is your view that when attacked people should sit idly by and sing kumbaya in the hopes it doesn't happen again?
We're not the ones being attacked.
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Jammy Duel
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#94
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#94
(Original post by CatusStarbright)
We're not the ones being attacked.
We weren't the ones being attacked in either world war, nor Korea, either Gulf war, Crimea, Libya, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone civil war, Kosovo, Bosnia, Suez, Greek Civil War, Operation Shader, the list goes on.

But actually even that isn't really true given it is looking increasingly likely we have 3 dead civilians at the hands of the Iranians, the seizure of Stena Impero, countless soldiers killed and wounded by Iranian proxies

And of course given you were stating discomfort about Trump's "warmongering", ie not sitting about idly singing kumbaya in response to an attack, the question stands.

Finally protection of interests does not require us personally to have been directly attacked, those lists of countless wars where we were not attacked, what do many of them have in common (there are a couple of things actually)?
WWI/II - diplomatic obligations and protection of interests, in both cases making sure Germany didn't get too strong being the interests
Korea - protection of interests
First gulf war - protection of interests
Crimea - protection of interests
Greece - interests
Shader - interests
Afghanistan - alliances and interests
Suez - interests


We could even add a third category, humanitarian efforts to tick off Libya (even if ill informed and more importantly poorly executed in an effort to avoid another Iraq), Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Bosnia, Shader

Actually standing up to Iran rather than just making noises they have no intention of paying attention to would tick both the interests and humanitarian boxes
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abucha3
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#95
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Aye, I agree with the motion. I do think we need to tread carefully and ensure we remain diplomatic and not come across as sabre-rattling.
I think we should certainly stand ready to respond to ongoing developments in that region. We are already providing all our commercial ships with an escort; maybe we should deploy another ship there.
Hopefully though over the next few days, the situation will be a little less tense than it is at the moment, it does depend heavily on if an Iranian missile did in fact bring down that plane.
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CatusStarbright
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
We weren't the ones being attacked in either world war, nor Korea, either Gulf war, Crimea, Libya, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone civil war, Kosovo, Bosnia, Suez, Greek Civil War, Operation Shader, the list goes on.

But actually even that isn't really true given it is looking increasingly likely we have 3 dead civilians at the hands of the Iranians, the seizure of Stena Impero, countless soldiers killed and wounded by Iranian proxies
Sure.
The three dead civilians were just unfortunate collateral damage, the seizure of the ship was not on but not something to go to war over, and the same for the last item on this list.
And of course given you were stating discomfort about Trump's "warmongering", ie not sitting about idly singing kumbaya in response to an attack, the question stands.
Which question?
Finally protection of interests does not require us personally to have been directly attacked, those lists of countless wars where we were not attacked, what do many of them have in common (there are a couple of things actually)?
WWI/II - diplomatic obligations and protection of interests, in both cases making sure Germany didn't get too strong being the interests
Korea - protection of interests
First gulf war - protection of interests
Crimea - protection of interests
Greece - interests
Shader - interests
Afghanistan - alliances and interests
Suez - interests

We could even add a third category, humanitarian efforts to tick off Libya (even if ill informed and more importantly poorly executed in an effort to avoid another Iraq), Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Bosnia, Shader
Diplomatic obligations - we should never break our word so that was completely justified.
Protection of interests - can be a legitimate reason depending on circumstances.
Alliances - this I take issue with because we should not just blindly follow our allies into war without considering their motives for going to war, and what reason we would have to engage in such a war.
Humanitarian efforts - should be treated even more carefully than 'protection of interests'.

Actually standing up to Iran rather than just making noises they have no intention of paying attention to would tick both the interests and humanitarian boxes
Aside from the nuclear shenanigans and the oil interest(!), what has Iran really got to do with us?
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Jammy Duel
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#97
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#97
(Original post by CatusStarbright)
Sure.
The three dead civilians were just unfortunate collateral damage, the seizure of the ship was not on but not something to go to war over, and the same for the last item on this list.

Which question?


Diplomatic obligations - we should never break our word so that was completely justified.
Protection of interests - can be a legitimate reason depending on circumstances.
Alliances - this I take issue with because we should not just blindly follow our allies into war without considering their motives for going to war, and what reason we would have to engage in such a war.
Humanitarian efforts - should be treated even more carefully than 'protection of interests'.


Aside from the nuclear shenanigans and the oil interest(!), what has Iran really got to do with us?
Unfortunate is a bit of an understatement, it is inexcusable, just as MH17 was, or KAL007, or Iran Air Flight 655. And once again, this idea that there was ever any real prospect of war is something spun by the media who want to sell papers and political opponents of Trump who want to make Orange Man sound bad.

"So it is your view that when attacked people should sit idly by and sing kumbaya in the hopes it doesn't happen again?"

Oil interests, when Iran attacked/seized those tankers the price of oil surged, and when they attacked the Saudi oil fields it surged by 15%. The UK economy, and economy of the developed world as a whole, quite sensitive to large movements in oil prices given just how much of an impact oil prices have on inflation
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SoggyCabbages
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#98
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#98
It's amazing some of the dove foreign attitudes we have in this thread.

Doesn't matter if we aren't being attacked, and it isn't our country. There are shared interests which sometimes need to be protected.
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CatusStarbright
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Unfortunate is a bit of an understatement, it is inexcusable, just as MH17 was, or KAL007, or Iran Air Flight 655. And once again, this idea that there was ever any real prospect of war is something spun by the media who want to sell papers and political opponents of Trump who want to make Orange Man sound bad.

"So it is your view that when attacked people should sit idly by and sing kumbaya in the hopes it doesn't happen again?"

Oil interests, when Iran attacked/seized those tankers the price of oil surged, and when they attacked the Saudi oil fields it surged by 15%. The UK economy, and economy of the developed world as a whole, quite sensitive to large movements in oil prices given just how much of an impact oil prices have on inflation
I'm afraid I consider life to be pretty cheap, even my own.

No. But I replied that we weren't the ones attacked.

Yes I know, it's wonderfully astonishing.
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Miss Maddie
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#100
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#100
(Original post by CatusStarbright)
I'm afraid I consider life to be pretty cheap, even my own.

No. But I replied that we weren't the ones attacked.

Yes I know, it's wonderfully astonishing.
If life is cheap why not go to war for the technological advancements it brings?
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