What's wrong with being a Marxist? Watch

Ferrograd
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I don't see what the problem is with one, like myself, identifying as a Marxist, as if its some kind of pejorative . People think its an "extreme" view, but in reality is it really? Marx was right. Yes, many people believe his theory is out of doubt, but whilst there may in theory be more than just land/factory owners and workers now, those class divides still exist. Anyone else feel this way?
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
I don't see what the problem is with one, like myself, identifying as a Marxist, as if its some kind of pejorative . People think its an "extreme" view, but in reality is it really? Marx was right. Yes, many people believe his theory is out of doubt, but whilst there may in theory be more than just land/factory owners and workers now, those class divides still exist. Anyone else feel this way?
Marx was an anti-Semite who believed the working class (Lumpenproleteriat) were idiots. His theories have caused over 90 million deaths worldwide (Great Leap Forward, Holodomor, North Korea).

Think before you post.
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Red Rose Leftist
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Marxism does have a point but it’s too extreme. Class conflict isn’t the only way to transition from capitalism. Socialism (as in democratic socialism) is a much better idea which doesn’t involve aggressively rejecting capitalism.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Marx was an anti-Semite who believed the working class (Lumpenproleteriat) were idiots. His theories have caused over 90 million deaths worldwide (Great Leap Forward, Holodomor, North Korea).

Think before you post.
"Marx was an antisemite" - Marx was a Jew........

Yes, not a religous one, but he hated all religion. I don't share that view, but at the time it was probably true. He did fail to acknowledge Christ was the closest thing to socialism before him.

Those "90 million deaths" can't be directly attributed to him. Many Marxists will tell you the USSR was state capitalist, as was China. That's like directly attributing the deaths caused by Islamic terrorism to the Prophet Mohammed/ the Koran because some people misinterpreted him.

The Lumpenproletariat are not the working class; they are lower, all he said was the proletariat had false class consciousness, which is clearly true, otherwise the workers in Britain would have either revolted, or at the very least, voted Labour, rather than Tory.

North Korea isn't even remotely marxist. it's basically a monarchy, it has a massive personality cult around kim jong un which marxism is very strongly against.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Professional G)
Marxism does have a point but it’s too extreme. Class conflict isn’t the only way to transition from capitalism. Socialism (as in democratic socialism) is a much better idea which doesn’t involve aggressively rejecting capitalism.
I agree, but take this with context when there were no party politics at the time for people to get actively involved in. There was nothing like the Labour party or any social democratic party, although some hardcore Marxists/Leftcoms would tell you all parties are bourgeousis. Still, in the third world I believe its a highly effective method. (I'm a third worldist).
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Marx was an anti-Semite who believed the working class (Lumpenproleteriat) were idiots. His theories have caused over 90 million deaths worldwide (Great Leap Forward, Holodomor, North Korea).

Think before you post.
Remember, you can't even call any of them "Marxist states", because that's an oxymoron in itself, Marx was against the state. He wanted workers to own the means of production. That doesn't equate to the government owning them.
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Napp
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Marx was an anti-Semite who believed the working class (Lumpenproleteriat) were idiots. His theories have caused over 90 million deaths worldwide (Great Leap Forward, Holodomor, North Korea).

Think before you post.
Not to defend him per-se but most of those accusations you've branded him with can very easily be flipped to anyone on the right as well. A particularly striking, relatively modern, example being the up to 4mn killed in Indonesia.
As for being an anti-semite, well, who wasnt then? and wasnt he a jew?
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adam271
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(Original post by Napp)
Not to defend him per-se but most of those accusations you've branded him with can very easily be flipped to anyone on the right as well. A particularly striking, relatively modern, example being the up to 4mn killed in Indonesia.
As for being an anti-semite, well, who wasnt then? and wasnt he a jew?
I suspect his logic is Corbyn is a nazi terrorist and marxist QED marx is a an anti-semite.
This debate is really not worth having far too much mud slinging and poltical allegiances that people dont want to think objectively.
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by adam271)
I suspect his logic is Corbyn is a nazi terrorist and marxist QED marx is a an anti-semite.
This debate is really not worth having far too much mud slinging and poltical allegiances that people dont want to think objectively.
Ahem
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question
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Deggs_14
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It’s outdated and too far left.
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Ferrograd
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He was criticisng religous jews.

So many marxists like marx himself were (and are) Jewish. There's a reason why Hitler called it "Jewish Bolshevism".

Antisemitism was rife in europe at the time, and many would argue that marx hated it because he saw religion being used by capitalism to divide people. He was actually christened so he wouldn't be targeted as a jew.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Deggs_14)
It’s outdated and too far left.
It's not outdated though, in fact its more relevant than ever. The bourgeousie still exist, and they still own the means of production. Sure, there may be now a "middle" class, but that could be equated with the petty bourgeousie.
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the bear
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there is nothing wrong with rooting around in the dustbin of history for your world view.
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Onde
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"I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member."
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tubphonecase
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Some people say they don't like Marxism because they believe Marx was anti-Semitic among other things. But most don't like Marxism because communism=scary and to non-leftists anything left of liberalism is communism.

It's completely fine to call yourself a Marxist, just be prepared to actually have to describe Marxism to people who think they understand it but really don't. I'm not specifically a Marxist (I don't use a specific label, just anti-capitalist and anti-statist) precisely because of the view most people have of specific leftist ideologies.
Marxism formed the basis of communism, and people think communism is scary because they don't understand it - or they're just a die-hard capitalist. I think that's pretty much why people don't like it.
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
He was criticisng religous jews.

So many marxists like marx himself were (and are) Jewish. There's a reason why Hitler called it "Jewish Bolshevism".

Antisemitism was rife in europe at the time, and many would argue that marx hated it because he saw religion being used by capitalism to divide people. He was actually christened so he wouldn't be targeted as a jew.
He referred to Jews as being adept at business and bargaining. That is an anti-Semitic trope
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