M575 - National Curriculum Review Motion Watch

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Glaz
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#41
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
One line we hear constantly on and on and on from people who are generally stupid or didn't pay enough attention in school is "ERM WTH WHY DID WE LEARN ABOUT ALGEBRA AND NOT TAXES".

I didn't have tax classes in school and I know how to fill in a tax return, P45 etc because funnily enough I have a brain cell and can read what the form asks me to do.

90% of people know what to do with money without having dedicated lessons in class. If you don't know what to do, there are ways of finding out without clogging up school time which is already cramped at the moment. No one in secondary school needs to know how to 'do taxes', (which in itself is a stupid phrase anyway) because the vast majority of people will earn so little that nothing is taken from them, and those who do earn stuff will only earn enough for NI contirbutions which are taken automatically.
Funnily enough I can also do this, but it would still be useful for people to have classes. Someone with "a brain cell" can read a textbook and learn to do algebra without classes, so what's your point?

(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
90% of people don't need a class on social skills because funnily enough what we've been doing at nursery, year 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, lower sixth, upper sixth, university year 1, 2, and 3 plus extracurriculur clubs, parties etc kind of prepare you socially. Unless you have a mental problem.
What about introverted people or unpopular people who don't get invited to parties or don't go to extracurricular clubs? Unless you're going to tell me that introverts and unpopular people have "mental problems", then you're dealing with a big percentage of the population.
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SoggyCabbages
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#42
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(Original post by Glaz)
Funnily enough I can also do this, but it would still be useful for people to have classes. Someone with "a brain cell" can read a textbook and learn to do algebra without classes, so what's your point?


What about introverted people or unpopular people who don't get invited to parties or don't go to extracurricular clubs? Unless you're going to tell me that introverts and unpopular people have "mental problems", then you're dealing with a big percentage of the population.
Classes to do what though? Exactly what finances does anyone in year 7-11 actually need to no beyond actually learning how to count? None. Or at the bare minimum that, too much credit = bad.

I had to fill in a P45 whilst I was at secondary school age, I got a payslip with NI contributions deducted, I got income tax deductions, and then an end of year tax rebate, P60's etc. None of this requires any financial lessons at all. Even for a ******.



Even if you've never been to a single party in your life or any other clubs you've still had a huge amount of human interaction which improvse your social skills. If you are naturally introverted then social skills classes aren't going to help, if you are 'unpopular' at a school then social skills classes aren't going to help.

You really do love to spin things on a weird axis don't you? You see me use the words "mental problems" and are trying your hardest to twist what I've said and are interpreting in such a way you can have a go at me.
Last edited by SoggyCabbages; 1 month ago
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Jammy Duel
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#43
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
One line we hear constantly on and on and on from people who are generally stupid or didn't pay enough attention in school is "ERM WTH WHY DID WE LEARN ABOUT ALGEBRA AND NOT TAXES".

I didn't have tax classes in school and I know how to fill in a tax return, P45 etc because funnily enough I have a brain cell and can read what the form asks me to do.

90% of people know what to do with money without having dedicated lessons in class. If you don't know what to do, there are ways of finding out without clogging up school time which is already cramped at the moment. No one in secondary school needs to know how to 'do taxes', (which in itself is a stupid phrase anyway) because the vast majority of people will earn so little that nothing is taken from them, and those who do earn stuff will only earn enough for NI contirbutions which are taken automatically.

90% of people don't need a class on social skills because funnily enough what we've been doing at nursery, year 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, lower sixth, upper sixth, university year 1, 2, and 3 plus extracurriculur clubs, parties etc kind of prepare you socially. Unless you have a mental problem.
We're talking about MHoCers here...
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Glaz)
Funnily enough I can also do this, but it would still be useful for people to have classes. Someone with "a brain cell" can read a textbook and learn to do algebra without classes, so what's your point?


What about introverted people or unpopular people who don't get invited to parties or don't go to extracurricular clubs? Unless you're going to tell me that introverts and unpopular people have "mental problems", then you're dealing with a big percentage of the population.
Are you suggesting that introverts and the unpopular kids literally never interacted with anybody? If they are that introverted they do have problems...
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04MR17
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
90% of people know what to do with money without having dedicated lessons in class. If you don't know what to do, there are ways of finding out without clogging up school time which is already cramped at the moment. No one in secondary school needs to know how to 'do taxes', (which in itself is a stupid phrase anyway) because the vast majority of people will earn so little that nothing is taken from them, and those who do earn stuff will only earn enough for NI contirbutions which are taken automatically.

90% of people don't need a class on social skills because funnily enough what we've been doing at nursery, year 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, lower sixth, upper sixth, university year 1, 2, and 3 plus extracurriculur clubs, parties etc kind of prepare you socially.
Can you evidence this?
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Glaz
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#46
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Classes to do what though? Exactly what finances does anyone in year 7-11 actually need to no beyond actually learning how to count? None. Or at the bare minimum that, too much credit = bad.

I had to fill in a P45 whilst I was at secondary school age, I got a payslip with NI contributions deducted, I got income tax deductions, and then an end of year tax rebate. None of this requires any financial lessons at all. Even for a ******.
I have no clue what a P45 is. Yes I can go read about it, yes I can blah blah blah. But I can also read about algebra, why do I have to go to school for 10 hours a day to learn something I can read about. Your words are meaningless

(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Even if you've never been to a single party in your life or any other clubs you've still had a huge amount of human interaction which improvse your social skills. If you are naturally introverted then social skills classes aren't going to help, if you are 'unpopular' at a school then social skills classes aren't going to help.
True, but they may be able to help, who knows :dontknow:

(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
You really do love to spin things on a weird axis don't you? You see me use the words "mental problems" and are trying your hardest to twist what I've said and are interpreting in such a way you can have a go at me.
I don't m8, I'm just trying to have a debate, what this thread and forum is made for. I haven't twisted your words in any way lmao
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Glaz
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#47
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Are you suggesting that introverts and the unpopular kids literally never interacted with anybody? If they are that introverted they do have problems...
I'm introverted and unpopular - I spend my classes at the back on TSR not listening to what the teacher says, I try to do work by myself in group activities and in free periods I find a seat in the common room next to a power socket and facing the TV so I can watch the news and do work by myself. I try my hardest not to interact with anybody because of my anxiety and lack of social skills.
If you want to say I have problems go for it, I most probably do :lol:, but to answer your question, some of us do never interact with anybody
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SoggyCabbages
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Can you evidence this?
What did I say? Don’t speak to me.

And how about you try and evidence otherwise?
Last edited by SoggyCabbages; 1 month ago
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SoggyCabbages
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(Original post by Glaz)
I'm introverted and unpopular - I spend my classes at the back on TSR not listening to what the teacher says, I try to do work by myself in group activities and in free periods I find a seat in the common room next to a power socket and facing the TV so I can watch the news and do work by myself. I try my hardest not to interact with anybody because of my anxiety and lack of social skills.
If you want to say I have problems go for it, I most probably do :lol:, but to answer your question, some of us do never interact with anybody
You’re moaning about not knowing stuff but you’ve just said you spend your time not listening and on your phone. There’s your problem.
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04MR17
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
What did I say? Don’t speak to me.
If you would like me to go on your TSR ignore list then request it here:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/for...lay.php?f=1217

Otherwise feel free to ignore my question, but someone else may well be curious about your claims that "90% of people behave in a certain way" without any evidence.
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SoggyCabbages
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(Original post by 04MR17)
If you would like me to go on your TSR ignore list then request it here:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/for...lay.php?f=1217

Otherwise feel free to ignore my question, but someone else may well be curious about your claims that "90% of people behave in a certain way" without any evidence.
I have several times ask for you and someone else in this house to be put on my ignore list but I can’t because you’re forum leaders, volunteers what have you. People of that ilk.


And again what I said. Don’t speak to me.
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SoggyCabbages
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(Original post by 04MR17)
If you would like me to go on your TSR ignore list then request it here:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/for...lay.php?f=1217

Otherwise feel free to ignore my question, but someone else may well be curious about your claims that "90% of people behave in a certain way" without any evidence.
But acting seriously, I’m not
Fussed about you on my ignore list.

that was obviously an exaggeration re the 90%. But let’s be frank here, secondary school students can handle money and buy things in a shop, they don’t need any more financial skills at that age than that.
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SoggyCabbages
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Where can you actually fit all this extra finance and social skills stuff into the curriculum? There isn’t enough time. PSHE lessons already are full of sex stuff and other stuff I’m sure is relevant. But there aren’t enough hours in the day.
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04MR17
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
But acting seriously, I’m not
Fussed about you on my ignore list.

that was obviously an exaggeration re the 90%. But let’s be frank here, secondary school students can handle money and buy things in a shop, they don’t need any more financial skills at that age than that.
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho....php?t=6303186
Regardless, I think this is something worth pursuing with TSR further.

I'm please you've admitted exaggerating. You have a valid point about financial skills and I've not made any arguments here for including financial skills into the national curriculum. Others have done. The only thing I'm arguing for is to have a public consultation.

(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Where can you actually fit all this extra finance and social skills stuff into the curriculum? There isn’t enough time. PSHE lessons already are full of sex stuff and other stuff I’m sure is relevant. But there aren’t enough hours in the day.
And this is why I think these questions ought to be put to the people. MHoC is too small a pool of information to decide what is and isn't important for children to learn.
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SnowMiku
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Where can you actually fit all this extra finance and social skills stuff into the curriculum? There isn’t enough time. PSHE lessons already are full of sex stuff and other stuff I’m sure is relevant. But there aren’t enough hours in the day.
Not sure if "other stuff" taught is actually relevant. I can only comment from personal experience, but most of my PSHE lessons have gone through social media stuff ETC that should be obvious to people of my age and don't need to be taught. Either that or work experience, but that's another rant.
Plus, isn't form/tutor time a time where this could be potentially taught as it isn't age sensitive? I'm sure most schools have this, and -going on personal experience- most of it is wasted on idle chit chat and activities e.g juggling (yes, we got did juggling for 20 minutes every week.)
If we focus on the right stuff, there should be enough time to teach stuff needed to adult life. Hence, consultation to find what that stuff is like 04MR17 said
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SoggyCabbages
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(Original post by SnowMiku)
Not sure if "other stuff" taught is actually relevant. I can only comment from personal experience, but most of my PSHE lessons have gone through social media stuff ETC that should be obvious to people of my age and don't need to be taught. Either that or work experience, but that's another rant.
Plus, isn't form/tutor time a time where this could be potentially taught as it isn't age sensitive? I'm sure most schools have this, and -going on personal experience- most of it is wasted on idle chit chat and activities e.g juggling (yes, we got did juggling for 20 minutes every week.)
If we focus on the right stuff, there should be enough time to teach stuff needed to adult life. Hence, consultation to find what that stuff is like 04MR17 said
Well if what you said is “obvious” then isn’t consent, finance and social skills obvious too?

its obvious not to rape and obvious to not spend beyond your means.
Last edited by SoggyCabbages; 1 month ago
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SnowMiku
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Well it what you said is “obvious” then isn’t consent, finance and social skills obvious?

its obvious not to rape and obvious to not spend beyond your means.
Those aren't exactly obvious, you're true, I was making an point that are things that are taught that we don't really need to be.
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Miss Maddie
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The motion is a waste of time. It calls for a public consultation :laugh: An exercise which is a waste of time. The House will consider reforms put forward because that's its job. The second paragraph becomes irrelevant. The first paragraph is mostly irrelevant. It states the obvious.

This is a few minutes of my life I'm never going to get back.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Where can you actually fit all this extra finance and social skills stuff into the curriculum? There isn’t enough time. PSHE lessons already are full of sex stuff and other stuff I’m sure is relevant. But there aren’t enough hours in the day.
PSCHEE is full of dog****e (if you'll excuse the language) that could absolutely be stripped out and replaced with actual, useful stuff.
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Glaz
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(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
Well if what you said is “obvious” then isn’t consent, finance and social skills obvious too?

its obvious not to rape and obvious to not spend beyond your means.
Didn't you say something before about needing to fill in a P45 or something? I got no clue what that is - a finance class could teach me
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