Labour members: who will you vote for leader? Watch

Drewski
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Nobody because the media have fought a toxic campaign against Labour.
Recently, maybe. Not helped by a labour party shooting themselves in the foot and being out of touch with the majority of their core vote.

But before that? Can't use the media argument then. Everybody was on Blair's side. He was adored and won two huge victories. Doesn't that tell you something...?

It is in the best interest of the next Labour leader to present themselves as centrist and then introduce the best leftwing Government since the 40s.
People will see through that. It'll never work. If the party can't be honest it doesn't deserve to be in power.
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Wired_1800
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#22
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(Original post by Drewski)
Recently, maybe. Not helped by a labour party shooting themselves in the foot and being out of touch with the majority of their core vote.

But before that? Can't use the media argument then. Everybody was on Blair's side. He was adored and won two huge victories. Doesn't that tell you something...?


People will see through that. It'll never work. If the party can't be honest it doesn't deserve to be in power.
Even during Ed Miliband’s time, there was the campaign. Does ‘Red Ed’ ring a bell.

Yes, people were on Blair’s side because he was not truly left. He was a comfortable tory-lite with sprinkle of left policies. That is what appeals to the media elite. Few left policies to make them feel good about themselves.

People wont see through that because it has to be well-coordinated. Someone like Nandy is seen as “blue Labour” because there is a fear of being tory-lite. However, the really clever commentators are holding fire because they truly don't know where she stands. Someone like her can be a good candidate to appeal to the right and have the credentials from the left.
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Good bloke
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Nobody because the media have fought a toxic campaign against Labour.

It is in the best interest of the next Labour leader to present themselves as centrist and then introduce the best leftwing Government since the 40s.
And you think the British electorate is too stupid to notice that even Starmer has said that Corbyn was on the right lines, and that of the candidates only Lisa Nandy had the integrity to avoid being in a Corbyn shadow cabinet?
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Drewski
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Even during Ed Miliband’s time, there was the campaign. Does ‘Red Ed’ ring a bell.

Yes, people were on Blair’s side because he was not truly left. He was a comfortable tory-lite with sprinkle of left policies. That is what appeals to the media elite. Few left policies to make them feel good about themselves.

People wont see through that because it has to be well-coordinated. Someone like Nandy is seen as “blue Labour” because there is a fear of being tory-lite. However, the really clever commentators are holding fire because they truly don't know where she stands. Someone like her can be a good candidate to appeal to the right and have the credentials from the left.
Yes. Hence why I said "recently".

And then I asked what about before that? A point you've completely ignored because you're 12 and don't know about anything that happened more than a few years ago.


And yes, people will see through that. Labour isn't capable of anything well-coordinated and can't win enough seats to win a General without winning back Scotland which it will never do.

So, unless your bunch embrace a much softer left option, you're ****ed. But you won't accept that because you're myopic and can't possibly understand that people don't see things the way you do.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Good bloke)
And you think the British electorate is too stupid to notice that even Starmer has said that Corbyn was on the right lines, and that of the candidates only Lisa Nandy had the integrity to avoid being in a Corbyn shadow cabinet?
Some of the public was too stupid to see through Johnson’s lies. Even Johnson’s father said that the public are illiterate. Give them what they want.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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Would prefer Lisa Nandy to reenergise the voting base over Starmer (aka Corbyn 2.0)

Though this will fly over the members heads many of which are still in denial
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Good bloke
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Some of the public was too stupid to see through Johnson’s lies. Even Johnson’s father said that the public are illiterate. Give them what they want.
So you do think the electorate is stupid. The policies offered were good but the public was too stupid to realise it.
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frantika
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#28
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RLB is basically Corbyn 2.0. If she wins, the Tories will be in power for another 10 years+

If labour wants to carry on with the same left-wing principles, fine. But as demonstrated time and time again the majority of people find them unpopular. If they actually want to win an election, then they have to move back towards the centre. I mean in the last 40 years the only time they had someone in power was somebody who was a centrist (Blair and a bit Brown).
But for Corbynistas, even to mention Blair is sinful.
Either they carry on like the green party, nobly sticking to their principles but never actually doing anything/getting into power, or they are rational and elect someone who is actually electable. Imo Starmer is the best here, but that really isn't saying much!
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yaseen1000
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#29
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#29
Keir Starmer
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Good bloke
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Well, the leadership election will be a good test of whether Labour can resurrect itself. If Momentum and Big Len can keep the more moderate candidates off the ballot paper and have RLB and either Burgon or Granny Rayner appointed unopposed then I think we can assume that the moderates will need to spend a few years steeling themselves to leave and form a new party.

On the other hand, if Starmer or Nandy can win then they will have an interesting battle to get rid of the Marxists once again. That took a long time previously, and may take even longer this time before they can dream of an election win.
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Wired_1800
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#31
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(Original post by Good bloke)
So you do think the electorate is stupid. The policies offered were good but the public was too stupid to realise it.
No, i did not say that. I said that for the Tories, some of the electorate fell for the lies.

I think the policies were good, but the timing poor because of the Brexit stance.
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QE2
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#32
(Original post by Good bloke)
And you think the British electorate is too stupid
Erm... Brexit and Johnson? The evidence is overwhelming.
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QE2
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(Original post by frantika)
If labour wants to carry on with the same left-wing principles, fine. But as demonstrated time and time again the majority of people find them unpopular.
The majority of people just accept what the Mail, Sun, etc tell them. In the last few years, "the people" have generally voted against their best interests.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by QE2)
Erm... Brexit and Johnson? The evidence is overwhelming.
There is stupid and there is really and utterly stupid. For me the 2019 election was a choice between letting a bunch of Marxists into government or Brexit. There is no doubt whatever that the latter is the far better choice and the electorate, thank goodness, agreed with me.
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QE2
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(Original post by Good bloke)
There is stupid and there is really and utterly stupid. For me the 2019 election was a choice between letting a bunch of Marxists into government or Brexit. There is no doubt whatever that the latter is the far better choice and the electorate, thank goodness, agreed with me.
Of course, "the people" often feel that they are able to rationalise their decisions.
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frantika
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(Original post by QE2)
The majority of people just accept what the Mail, Sun, etc tell them. In the last few years, "the people" have generally voted against their best interests.
No they don't. That's such a patronising thing to say that "oh, we had the right policies but people are stupid". I agree that some people are stupid but the majority of people really aren't. I'm guessing you don't live in a working class place that turned blue? People didn't like Corbyn's identity politics, his laughable economic policies, his anti-british stance, and his utterly moronic cabinet. Until you realise that Corbyn and Labour have serious issues that most people genuinely do not like, you will not win an election.
And disclaimer: I hate the Tories even more! But they are enabled by an incompetent opposition.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by QE2)
Of course, "the people" often feel that they are able to rationalise their decisions.
There is nothing irrational about wanting to keep Marxists out of power.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Good bloke)
There is stupid and there is really and utterly stupid. For me the 2019 election was a choice between letting a bunch of Marxists into government or Brexit. There is no doubt whatever that the latter is the far better choice and the electorate, thank goodness, agreed with me.
That is not true though. People did not decide between those two options and you are reducing what was a complex debate during the election to your own world view.

Yes, one debate was between Brexit and Remaining. Another debate was between Johnson and Corbyn. Another was between Tory economic manifesto and Labour economic manifesto.
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QE2
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(Original post by frantika)
People didn't like Corbyn's identity politics, his laughable economic policies, his anti-british stance,
As I said, people just accept what the Mail, Sun, etc tell them.
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Good bloke
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#40
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
That is not true though. People did not decide between those two options and you are reducing what was a complex debate during the election to your own world view.
I didn't see a complex debate. Labour didn't know what it wanted on Brexit. The LibDems were dead against it, as were the Nats in Scotland, while the Conservatives nailed their colours to the Brexit mast.

Most Labour MPs didn't want Corbyn to be PM, and nobody else did either unless they were the sort that always buy the Labour brand even when it stops doing what it says on the tin. Fortunately there weren't enough of those to trouble Boris and he got a thumping majority. It means Brexit will happen but at least Marxism and its consequent confiscation of assets won't.
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