Labour members: who will you vote for leader? Watch

Johnny Tightlips
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#41
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#41
(Original post by QE2)
As I said, people just accept what the Mail, Sun, etc tell them.
Well I don't read the sun, the mail, the express or any of those other rags. You overestimate their influence.
Labour is a great proponent of cancerous identity politics. That's a fact. His cabinet had a number of self-confessed marxists, racists and idiots. That's a fact. His economic policies, such as nationalising broadband, energy, increase trade unions etc. have already been tried and tested prior to the 70s and failed. That's a fact. You don't need media to tell you that.
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Wired_1800
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Good bloke)
I didn't see a complex debate. Labour didn't know what it wanted on Brexit. The LibDems were dead against it, as were the Nats in Scotland, while the Conservatives nailed their colours to the Brexit mast.

Most Labour MPs didn't want Corbyn to be PM, and nobody else did either unless they were the sort that always buy the Labour brand even when it stops doing what it says on the tin. Fortunately there weren't enough of those to trouble Boris and he got a thumping majority. It means Brexit will happen but at least Marxism and its consequent confiscation of assets won't.
The discussions were not about a series of issues, but the tories and their media pals tried to make it about Brexit. The debate involved Tory austerity, Brexit, public services and many more issues.

I agree that Johnson won a thumping majority, but please dont arrive at simple conclusion. Also, real experts such as John Curtice concluded that some tories won seats because parties cancelled each other out. For example, Tories won at Kensington by 150 votes but this was due to Sam Gymiah (Lib Dem) diluting the vote of the sitting Labour MP Emma Dent Coad. This was also report to be the case at Finchley & Golders Green.
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Good bloke
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Wired_1800)
The debate involved Tory austerity, Brexit, public services and many more issues.
Well, if you think that then the Labour Party has a lot of problems to solve. You do realise that there could not have been an election if Labour had not agreed to hold one? There is an aphorism about turkeys voting for Christmas that seems very apposite.
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Wired_1800
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Good bloke)
Well, if you think that then the Labour Party has a lot of problems to solve. You do realise that there could not have been an election if Labour had not agreed to hold one? There is an aphorism about turkeys voting for Christmas that seems very apposite.
I agree. Labour should not have called for the election. Corbyn was outplayed by Johnson and was stabbed in the back by Lib Dems + SNP, who supported an early poll because they felt they had Johnson cornered.

If Corbyn had accepted Johnson’s Brexit deal, we probably would have better. Whenever he mentioned the NHS or austerity or whatever, Johnson cleverly reverted back to the main point which was Brexit.
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z-hog
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Z-hog is a far right conspiracy theorist (I.e. fully paid up Q-ultist) who thinks that there will be no support for centre-left politics and so that RLB would mean another Tory win, which - unless he is a billionaire - he is naive enough to believe is in his best interests
Thank you for that representative sample of the typical RLB supporter!
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z-hog
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Wired_1800)
What do you mean?
I'll have to admit I didn't really mean it, can I remind everybody else that everything you're saying is exactly what was said about Corbyn? That he represented the kiss of death for Labour and that he didn't stand a chance? Well, that outside ranker representing the loony left went on to generate a takeover of the party and may well have lost the election but take away the Brexit factor and it would have been a closer run. A close shave, more like.

Not only that, he was a hit with the kids and we can see it well in this forum. The loony left drag the tone away from anything cerebral and turn everything into an emotional affair in the absence of any better alternatives but it bluddy well works with their teachers in the classrooms and the helping hand of the Blairites at the BBC. RLB would probably be the best at it, therefore not necessarily my preferred choice.
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Wired_1800
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#47
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(Original post by z-hog)
I'll have to admit I didn't really mean it, can I remind everybody else that everything you're saying is exactly what was said about Corbyn? That he represented the kiss of death for Labour and that he didn't stand a chance? Well, that outside ranker representing the loony left went on to generate a takeover of the party and may well have lost the election but take away the Brexit factor and it would have been a closer run. A close shave, more like.

Not only that, he was a hit with the kids and we can see it well in this forum. The loony left drag the tone away from anything cerebral and turn everything into an emotional affair in the absence of any better alternatives but it bluddy well works with their teachers in the classrooms and the helping hand of the Blairites at the BBC. RLB would probably be the best at it, therefore not necessarily my preferred choice.
The funny thing with the anti-Corbyn rhetoric is that they love the left so much they want to get rid of him. If Corbyn was an ineffective and useless opponent, why don't you keep him and win the next 3 election cycles? Of course, they wont because Corbyn exposes them and shows the nation a different picture.
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z-hog
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#48
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
The funny thing with the anti-Corbyn rhetoric is that they love the left so much they want to get rid of him.
Who's they?

If Corbyn was an ineffective and useless opponent, why don't you keep him and win the next 3 election cycles?
Who's you?

Of course, they wont because Corbyn exposes them and shows the nation a different picture.
Who's they again?
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Wired_1800
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#49
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#49
(Original post by z-hog)
Who's they?



Who's you?



Who's they again?
The Tories and the billionaire-owned media


The Tories


The Tories and the billionaire-owned media

PS: I am often writing about the tories and the media (Murdoch press, DM, BBC, Sky etc)
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z-hog
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Wired_1800)
The Tories and the billionaire-owned media.
Oh, I see. But look, it's not for them to keep him and even if they tried... his resignation would be too much of an obstacle.
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Wired_1800
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#51
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#51
(Original post by z-hog)
Oh, I see. But look, it's not for them to keep him and even if they tried... his resignation would be too much of an obstacle.
The media have been campaigning for him to go since the first mutiny in 2015/16. If he was the dullard, they would have let it be.
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LeapingLucy
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#52
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#52
Presuming they all get on the ballot,
1. Lisa Nandy
2. Keir Starmer
3. Jess Phillips

I won't give any preference to Thornberry or Long-Bailey.

(I've joined the Labour Party specifically in order to vote)
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z-hog
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#53
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#53
There's another way to look at this: which of those (and entourage) is better equipped to go sit at an international conference with other world leaders, were they ever thrust into number 10? Which one would we like to go out there and represent the country without wetting him (or her) self?

It would have to be Starmer, he's the only one with some experience of dealing with a mountain of paperwork. The 'danger' he represents is that he may drag the party back to the centre and therefore not necessarily the preferred choice from the enemy.
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QE2
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#54
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#54
(Original post by frantika)
Labour is a great proponent of cancerous identity politics. That's a fact. His cabinet had a number of self-confessed marxists, racists and idiots. That's a fact. His economic policies, such as nationalising broadband, energy, increase trade unions etc. have already been tried and tested prior to the 70s and failed. That's a fact. You don't need media to tell you that.
Yeah, forget what I said about reading the Mail and the Sun. You're just high.
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Johnny Tightlips
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#55
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#55
(Original post by QE2)
Yeah, forget what I said about reading the Mail and the Sun. You're just high.
Sure I am. If you were any more in denial the Ancient Egyptians would worship you
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username3941996
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#56
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#56
(Original post by z-hog)
There's another way to look at this: which of those (and entourage) is better equipped to go sit at an international conference with other world leaders, were they ever thrust into number 10? Which one would we like to go out there and represent the country without wetting him (or her) self?

It would have to be Starmer, he's the only one with some experience of dealing with a mountain of paperwork. The 'danger' he represents is that he may drag the party back to the centre and therefore not necessarily the preferred choice from the enemy.
Starmer is responsible for creating the policy (second referendum) that costed plenty of seats while Bailey created the popular policies
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QE2
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Red Rose Leftist)
Starmer is responsible for creating the policy (second referendum) that costed plenty of seats while Bailey created the popular policies
So what's your point? The next Labour leader should support Brexit, tax cuts, immigration control and right-wing populism?
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Good bloke
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Red Rose Leftist)
Bailey created the popular policies
Which were they? Free everything and confiscation of assets?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Wired_1800)
On another thread, someone aptly stated that anyone perceived to be left of Blair is deemed too left. Ed Miliband was even called ‘Red Ed’ and deemed too far left.
That's because the overton window in this country is well and truly broken by how far right Blair dragged the left, and how much further right the right has been dragged. By that metric Corbyn is far left, but in reality Corbyns manifesto would have simply taken us towards a level of public infrastructure marginally lower than that of countries like France. To suggest he is actually far left, rather than this country just being absurdly far right, is to suggest there's little ideological difference between him, thinking capitalist systems can work given the right oversight, and myself, who thinks that the only way to properly stop climate change is with guillotines because the rich are fundamentally the enemies of humanity.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
That's because the overton window in this country is well and truly broken by how far right Blair dragged the left, and how much further right the right has been dragged. By that metric Corbyn is far left, but in reality Corbyns manifesto would have simply taken us towards a level of public infrastructure marginally lower than that of countries like France. To suggest he is actually far left, rather than this country just being absurdly far right, is to suggest there's little ideological difference between him, thinking capitalist systems can work given the right oversight, and myself, who thinks that the only way to properly stop climate change is with guillotines because the rich are fundamentally the enemies of humanity.
Yes. The idea of “far right” and “far left” is relative to the existing ideologies that prevail within the country. The idea that Corbyn is a stone-cold aggressive Marxists or even a Communist is incredibly stupid.

I think Blair was “Blue Labour” and tory-lite. He was popular because his views appealed to the existing notion that right wing policies should be the main framework, then with a sprinkle of some left wing provisions to avoid the poor and working class from rising up.

One big situation that many of us probably have not realised is the stronghold that the rich and powerful have over this country. Even during the times of homelessness, poverty and small-scale strife, we see opposition to sensible social policies.
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