Labour members: who will you vote for leader? Watch

Good bloke
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
That's because the overton window in this country is well and truly broken by how far right Blair dragged the left, and how much further right the right has been dragged. By that metric Corbyn is far left, but in reality Corbyns manifesto would have simply taken us towards a level of public infrastructure marginally lower than that of countries like France. To suggest he is actually far left, rather than this country just being absurdly far right, is to suggest there's little ideological difference between him, thinking capitalist systems can work given the right oversight, and myself, who thinks that the only way to properly stop climate change is with guillotines because the rich are fundamentally the enemies of humanity.
If members of the Labour Party are generally in agreement with you then it genuinely has no hope of electoral success in Britain. And I do read today that Gabby Lie-Concealer has overtaken Starmer in the polling so that is optimistic. Corbyn was acknowledged as a far left troublemakert, along with McDonnell for a long time before Blair came along. He joined the Campaign Group as soon as he became an MP.

To describe what is probably the wettest Conservative government ever as far right is very odd. Boris is probably further left than Blair was.
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NClaw
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#62
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#62
Emily Thronberry. She seems decisive and also convincing on both sides of the aisle as she is more of a centre left candidate. I also find her extremely capable as a leader with appropriate experience.
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username3941996
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#63
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#63
(Original post by QE2)
So what's your point? The next Labour leader should support Brexit, tax cuts, immigration control and right-wing populism?
The next labour leader should be someone who is able to accept the results and not have a unpopular compromise.
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username3941996
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Good bloke)
Which were they? Free everything and confiscation of assets?
Green new deal, lower tax relief for corporations, letting the councils to manage their own income rates, nationalising the railways by line by line depending on their performance, reforming the NHS to the modern society, the re industrialisation of the north etc
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Good bloke
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Red Rose Leftist)
The next labour leader should be someone who is able to accept the results and not have a unpopular compromise.
So should carry on with the same policies in the expectation that the electorate will be more intelligent next time?
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username3941996
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Good bloke)
So should carry on with the same policies in the expectation that the electorate will be more intelligent next time?
I prefer the 2017 manifesto but they generate more excitement than the Current Tory manifesto of throw money at it and hope it sticks.
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generallee
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#67
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#67
I haven't/won't vote in this election, because I couldn't be arsed to fork out the £25, but I did vote for Corbyn last time, and it worked out a dream. I knew he would be a disaster, (it was pretty obvious even to me) but he was even worse than I hoped. He both delivered Brexit, and kept Labout out for at least ten years. Well worth the few quid it cost me.

Doesn't the fact that I, an ardent Brexiteer who despises the modern Labour Party was able to vote for its last Leader, and could have done this time too demonstrate the utter absurdity of the whole process??

It is an invitation to entryism. Not from people like me, we are peripheral, doing it for a joke, but from the loony left. That is how they ended up with Corbyn and hopefully next time with Rebecca Wrong Daily.

It is marvellous.
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Good bloke
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#68
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#68
(Original post by generallee)
That is how they ended up with Corbyn and hopefully next time with Rebecca Wrong Daily.
It is disrespectful to call her that. Her name is an anagram of Gabby Lie-Concealer which is far less passive, and she has expressed clear apathy over which order the various elements of her name are written.
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generallee
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Good bloke)
It is disrespectful to call her that. Her name is an anagram of Gabby Lie-Concealer which is far less passive, and she has expressed clear apathy over which order the various elements of her name are written.
Fair point.

Corby was the worst Labour Leader in history upon his accession, and yet she would be even worse. Where do they get these candidates from?? It is not like being the potential Prime Minister of our country is a position of any great importance or anything.

You feel like the lights are on but there is no-one at home when you see her tortured attempt at speech. I wouldn't describe her as being as thick as pig $hit because that would be unwontedly disrespectful to our friends of a porcine persuasion...

The Labour Party nowadays is laughable, frankly. Unsalvageable.

It is totally wonderful.
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AntiMonarchist
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#70
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#70
The Labour party are in an identity crisis, and probably have been for the last 40 years or so. Their economic principles are only really supported by the working classes, but the so called 'culture wars' have put them on the wrong side of the argument to this base. This leaves them with pretty isolated pockets of support amongst the immigrant working classes and idealistic middle class students. Add this to their complete replacement in Scotland by the SNP, and I really do not see them ever forming a majority government again, at least in their present guise.
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username3941996
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#71
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#71
(Original post by generallee)
Fair point.

Corby was the worst Labour Leader in history upon his accession, and yet she would be even worse. Where do they get these candidates from?? It is not like being the potential Prime Minister of our country is a position of any great importance or anything.

You feel like the lights are on but there is no-one at home when you see her tortured attempt at speech. I wouldn't describe her as being as thick as pig $hit because that would be unwontedly disrespectful to our friends of a porcine persuasion...

The Labour Party nowadays is laughable, frankly. Unsalvageable.

It is totally wonderful.
Shes not ideal but she’s arguably the second most electable behind Stramer and tied second with Nandy. we already know her ideas and policy making is crucial to Labour. The only person I think would actually be terrible is Philips. Thankfully, she isn’t close to becoming leader
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Wired_1800
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#72
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#72
You think it is wonderful, yet you spend your time commenting on Labour issues. Why don't we look to the next election.

generallee
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generallee
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#73
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Red Rose Leftist

She isn't remotely electable. She isn't fit to be the Prime Minister of our country. Compared to Atlee, and Gaitskill, and Wilson and Callaghan, and Roy Jenkins, and Blair she is a political pygmy. But the longer you and your ilk fail to realise that the happier Tories like I will be.
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generallee
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Wired_1800)
You think it is wonderful, yet you spend your time commenting on Labour issues. Why don't we look to the next election.

generallee
You do realise that we live under a two party system and the Labour Party is the Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, right?

Of course I comment on Labour issues. Its electoral toxicity is of great importance to we Tories. The weaker you are, the stronger it makes us. A two party system is a zero sum game.
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z-hog
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#75
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#75
(Original post by generallee)
Red Rose Leftist

She isn't remotely electable.
Make sure you don't underestimate the good work by the education system and the BBC in de-activating people's brains, wasn't Corbyn a hit with the youth? It was only the grown ups that he failed to persuade and they won't be around forever.
Last edited by z-hog; 4 weeks ago
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username3941996
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#76
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#76
(Original post by generallee)
Red Rose Leftist

She isn't remotely electable. She isn't fit to be the Prime Minister of our country. Compared to Atlee, and Gaitskill, and Wilson and Callaghan, and Roy Jenkins, and Blair she is a political pygmy. But the longer you and your ilk fail to realise that the happier Tories like I will be.
They were good for their time but Blair is the one who led us to ten years of Tory rule. Maybe He was good for his time but now Labour is plagued by Blairism and is unable to change. You hardly hear anyone talking about anyone before Blair these days.
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generallee
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#77
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#77
Red Rose Leftist

No you don't, but that is because most Labour members and supporters are ignorant of their own history.

The Labour Party used to be great. It used to attract the brightest and the best people of its generation. Real intellectual titans. Rebecca Long Bailey is too stupid to make the tea for Roy Jenkins, or Tony Crosland, or Denis Healey, with their best firsts of their peer group at Oxford.

The Tory Party is almost similarly talentless, it is true, but they have a greater ruthlessness to achieve power, and are not in thrall to this quasi religious, Marxist Momentum cult that is destroying Labour.
Last edited by generallee; 4 weeks ago
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Johnny Tightlips
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Red Rose Leftist)
They were good for their time but Blair is the one who led us to ten years of Tory rule. Maybe He was good for his time but now Labour is plagued by Blairism and is unable to change. You hardly hear anyone talking about anyone before Blair these days.
Plagued by blairism? Plagued by momentum more like
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Johnny Tightlips
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#79
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(Original post by AntiMonarchist)
The Labour party are in an identity crisis, and probably have been for the last 40 years or so. Their economic principles are only really supported by the working classes, but the so called 'culture wars' have put them on the wrong side of the argument to this base. This leaves them with pretty isolated pockets of support amongst the immigrant working classes and idealistic middle class students. Add this to their complete replacement in Scotland by the SNP, and I really do not see them ever forming a majority government again, at least in their present guise.
Exactly! Their economic policies are somewhat popular, they just need to be toned down a bit (i.e don't nationalise everything). UK is screaming for less neoliberal economic policies.

But Labour's social policies (identity politics, mass immigration, benefits for all etc) are completely unpopular with everyone who isn't a student or from London. Soon as they ditch them, get a bit more of a patriotic image, and have workable economic policies, they will definitely be electable.

Will they do all that? Not with momentum running the ropes.
Last edited by Johnny Tightlips; 4 weeks ago
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username3941996
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#80
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#80
(Original post by frantika)
Plagued by blairism? Plagued by momentum more like
All those Pakistani grooming gangs is said to be caused by mass migration - who was PM during that time - Blair.

Anti immigration rhetoric used by the Tories and Farage to advocate for Brexit - Blair’s mass migration policy again.

The belief that Labour spent too much on the NHS - Blair spending.

Getting into the Iraqi War with Bush - Blair’s Foreign Policy.

Blair may be the best thing to happen to Labour but he’s also the worst.
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