RedAli23
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I have a mostly positive view on feminism, but I consider myself an egalitarian for a few different reasons. One of them is with extreme feminists (or feminazis), it really angers me that loads of them think women should be superior over men and that defeats the main objective of feminism.

What do you people think? Tell us your opinions on feminism and egalitarianism in the thread...
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Democracy
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Thanks for this highly original thread. Definitely looking forward to hearing the TSR incel community's views on feminism for the millionth time
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londonmyst
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I'm female but not a feminist.
Nor an incel.

I have plenty of feminist friends and my father is an intersectional feminist.
Feminism focuses upon championing women and highlighting issues considered to be of importance to women.
Egalitarianism is a doctrine that holds that all people are equal and thus deserving of equal rights & opportunities.
I'm more focused on justice than identity politics or automatic parity under all socio-legal-economic & religious scenarios.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by RedAli23)
it really angers me that loads of them think women should be superior over men
Genuinely, has anyone ever met a person who embodied this stereotype? World's a big place so there's probably someone who does believe that but for the fuss people make of it I expected I'd have at least met one of those people by now
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Democracy
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(Original post by londonmyst)
I'm female but not a feminist.
Nor an incel.

I have plenty of feminist friends and my father is an intersectional feminist.
Feminism focuses upon championing women and highlighting issues considered to be of importance to women.
Egalitarianism is a doctrine that holds that all people are equal and thus deserving of equal rights & opportunities.
I'm more focused on justice than identity politics or automatic parity under all socio-legal-economic & religious scenarios.
Equality is important, however...

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londonmyst
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Genuinely, has anyone ever met a person who embodied this stereotype? World's a big place so there's probably someone who does believe that but for the fuss people make of it I expected I'd have at least met one of those people by now
Yes, within the political fringes and most revolutionary circles there are quite a few of them.
My father, most of the radical feminist crowd he panders to and some of the women's liberation relics (guys and girl).
Along with almost all the women under 35s I know who are in the habit of mass social media posting "men are trash", verbally echoing it like some sort of tantric mantra and are the most vocal of slut-walk fans.
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Democracy)
Equality is important, however...

Spoiler:
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I'm not a feminist or egalitarian.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Yes, within the political fringes and most revolutionary circles there are quite a few of them.
My father, most of the radical feminist crowd he panders to and some of the women's liberation relics (guys and girl).
Along with almost all the women under 35s I know who are in the habit of mass social media posting "men are trash", verbally echoing it like some sort of tantric mantra and are the most vocal of slut-walk fans.
I mean, I wouldn't say posting men are trash is extreme feminism rather than tongue in cheek hyperbole (like taking screenshots of oblivious yahoo answers posts and captioning them "we regret to inform you that men are cancelled" or memes like the handshake ones; orcs and feminists - "the age of men is over"). I'm talking about those who seriously want a matriarchy rather than the abolition of gender inequality; I see far more people moaning about these feminists than I actually see any of these feminists
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
I mean, I wouldn't say posting men are trash is extreme feminism rather than tongue in cheek hyperbole (like taking screenshots of oblivious yahoo answers posts and captioning them "we regret to inform you that men are cancelled" or memes like the handshake ones; orcs and feminists - "the age of men is over"). I'm talking about those who seriously want a matriarchy rather than the abolition of gender inequality; I see far more people moaning about these feminists than I actually see any of these feminists
In my experience, the very frequent posting of the "men are trash" quoteand constant verbal repetition is not meant as a joke.
Rather a statement of genuine belief in the patriarchy as the dominant power structure, desire to dismantle and systematically replace it with matriarchy.
My father believes it, so do most of his radfem associates.
Every one of the frequent repetition and posting women under 35 that I know have told me that they really mean it.
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Johnny Tightlips
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(Original post by RedAli23)
I have a mostly positive view on feminism, but I consider myself an egalitarian for a few different reasons. One of them is with extreme feminists (or feminazis), it really angers me that loads of them think women should be superior over men and that defeats the main objective of feminism.

What do you people think? Tell us your opinions on feminism and egalitarianism in the thread...
I think it's mainly due to the media and twitter that people see the "feminazi" movement as more popular then it is. Because I've met very few people in student politics circles who actually believes in it.

I am for equal rights and equal opportunity for women. But men and women are different. You can't expect every job ratio to be 50:50. Just give people equal rights and let it be, rather then controlling society to make everyone exactly equal
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Just my opinion
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
I mean, I wouldn't say posting men are trash is extreme feminism rather than tongue in cheek hyperbole
So I presume if an extreme MRA was posting on here "women are trash" youd see that as a joke too? 🤔
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Just my opinion)
So I presume if an extreme MRA was posting on here "women are trash" youd see that as a joke too? 🤔
No, since a) they're described as an extreme MRA and so would seriously hold that belief and b) power structures don't work that way (misandry isn't real) and so neither does humour - punching up is comedy, punching down is bullying.
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Ascend
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(Original post by londonmyst)
I'm more focused on justice than identity politics or automatic parity under all socio-legal-economic & religious scenarios.
(Original post by londonmyst)
I'm not a feminist or egalitarian.
Do you believe that justice is not served by feminist and egalitarian positions?
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by RedAli23)
I have a mostly positive view on feminism, but I consider myself an egalitarian for a few different reasons. One of them is with extreme feminists (or feminazis), it really angers me that loads of them think women should be superior over men and that defeats the main objective of feminism.

What do you people think? Tell us your opinions on feminism and egalitarianism in the thread...
I do not think it is right to judge feminism by the actions of its followers. I do not think it is right to judge any ideology by the actions of its followers. Often, if not nearly always, you find followers of an ideology ignorant of most of its teachings and so their actions are often disconnected from its reality.

I concern myself only with the teachings of this ideology, its doctrine, the ideas of its most prominent thinkers. Its these teachings, these principles, these ideas, which are full of hatred and sexism against men, that are concerning to me. It is these things that make me oppose feminism, not the actions/choices of its followers, who may not be informed in feminism.
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by Just my opinion)
So I presume if an extreme MRA was posting on here "women are trash" youd see that as a joke too? 🤔
Feminists respond to the man hatred prevalent in their ideology/movement in three ways:

1. Feminism is not a monolith.
2. This is just a joke.
3. These are not feminists.

What you will notice about all of these replies is that none take responsibility for the problem. They are all dismissive. Feminists, do not recognise the fact that they have a problem.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 1 month ago
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Ascend
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
I concern myself only with the teachings of this ideology, its doctrine, the ideas of its most prominent thinkers.
That depends on who you think its most prominent thinkers are. Like every ideology, there are inconsistencies and contradictions. The core, most basic principle of feminism that has the least objection is this: equal rights for women. This seems to be the only thing that all feminists share.

Its these teachings, these principles, these ideas, which are full of hatred and sexism against men, that are concerning to me.
Can you show some of these "most prominent" thinkers who harbour hatred and sexism against men?
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Ascend
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
Feminists respond to the man hatred prevalent in their ideology/movement in three ways:

1. Feminism is not a monolith.
2. This is just a joke.
3. These are not feminists.

What you will notice about all of these replies is that none take responsibility for the problem. This is evidence that the problem that is sexism in feminism can never be fixed by feminists. The solution to the problem that is feminist sexism can only be only be external i.e. through opposition, because they, feminists, do not recognise the fact that they have a problem.
This is highly ironic coming from an Islamic apologist.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
I do not think it is right to judge feminism by the actions of its followers. I do not think it is right to judge any ideology by the actions of its followers. Often, if not nearly always, you find followers of an ideology ignorant of most of its teachings and so their actions are often disconnected from its reality.

I concern myself only with the teachings of this ideology, its doctrine, the ideas of its most prominent thinkers. Its these teachings, these principles, these ideas, which are full of hatred and sexism against men, that are concerning to me. It is these things that make me oppose feminism, not the actions/choices of its followers, three quarters of whom, in so far as feminism is concerned, do not know their butt from their elbow.
Just for reference you know jack **** about feminism, the principles absolutely are not man hating, nor is man hating prevalent.

The principles of feminism are the principles of freedom and gendered liberation, as the current system of gender is unfit for purpose and harms everyone (men included, if MRAs actually cared about things like suicide and combat fatalities rather than bringing them up as gotchas they'd recognise that these are caused to men by the role men are forced into within our gendered society). Your issue is simply that when you've been privileged for so long, you lose perspective and equality for others feels like oppression to you.
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by Ascend)
That depends on who you think its most prominent thinkers are.
No. I do not decide the answer to this question. They do. I concern myself with whom they define as their most prominent thinkers.

I do this for all ideologies. When I approach Islam for example, I concern myself with the actions and choices of Abu Bakr, Omr etc. as narrated in Al Bukhari and Ahmad bin Hanbal and interpreted by scholars who receive general consensus. The way I analyse feminism maybe a little more complicated than you imply.

(Original post by Ascend)
Like every ideology, there are inconsistencies and contradictions. The core, most basic principle of feminism that has the least objection is this: equal rights for women. This seems to be the only thing that all feminists share.
No. I respectfully disagree with you. Equality is not a fundamental, core concept in feminism. Not all feminists agree on equality. For example there is a group within feminism called Equity Feminists who believe that equality is wrong and that it should be replaced with equity.

(Original post by Ascend)
Can you show some of these "most prominent" thinkers who harbour hatred and sexism against men?
Of course! Simone de Beauvoir, called the mother of feminism by feminists, whose book the Second Sex is called the bible of feminism by feminists, described by feminist icon Mary McCarthy as "the leading french femme savant', is one of the most highly celebrated icons within the feminist movement. Feminists have bridges and universities named after her.

The fundamental concept on which feminism is based, the Patriarchy, the idea that we live in a world run by a system created by men to objectify and enslave women for the benefit of men, a principle taken from marxist, communist doctrine, is a fundamentally sexist concept that presents man as the enemy and is a route cause for the hatred found in feminism for men.

Listen to Simone De Beauvoir present the idea of the Patriarchy in The Second Sex:

“Man put himself forward as the Subject (a marxist, communist term referring to people who rule the world by means of objectifying other classes) and considered the woman as the object (a marxist, communist term referring to people who are underprivileged, oppressed and exploited for the beneficence of the Subjects) …She is the incidental, the inessential as opposed to the essential...
…He is the Absolute. Woman has always been man’s dependent, if not his slave.”

Replace the word man with black person or Jew here and tell me what you think. Would you not become grossly offended?

Men according to feminism’s patriarchy Other women. Othering a phenomenological concept adapted and adopted by marxist philosophers like Jean-Paul Sartre to describe the relationship between the bourgeois and the proletariat, was applied for the first time to men and women by Simone De Beauvoir in the 1940s in The Ethics of Ambiguity. These marxist ideas became the foundations of feminist theory. Feminists today use Othering, this marxist, communist concept turned sexist by SdB to explain men’s victimisation of women in society. Othering inspired sexist feminist ideas like mansplaining and manspreading.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 1 month ago
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Ascend)
Do you believe that justice is not served by feminist and egalitarian positions?
In relation to the latter sometimes justice is served, in relation to the former it rarely is.
I believe that too many vicious, fanatical and religious elements with alternative agendas to justice have permeated into mainstream feminism over the last 30 years.
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