P102 – Ban puberty blockers being given to children Watch

This discussion is closed.
Miss Maddie
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#21
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#21
(Original post by Aph)
If you are going to cite articles don’t cite ones behind a paywall. If I could vote I’d nay for just that because it means I can’t view the facts.
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Staff+at+trans...le+on+pressure

Unblocked article appears https://www.peaktrans.org/staff-at-t...imes-16-02-19/

Who would've thought research finds things out?
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#22
Report 4 weeks ago
#22
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Staff+at+trans...le+on+pressure

Unblocked article appears https://www.peaktrans.org/staff-at-t...imes-16-02-19/

Who would've thought research finds things out?
It is not my job to find your evidence for you. It is your job to lay your evidence before the house in a clear and concise manner. You would do well to remember that.
1
Miss Maddie
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#23
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#23
(Original post by Aph)
It is not my job to find your evidence for you. It is your job to lay your evidence before the house in a clear and concise manner. You would do well to remember that.
The evidence was laid out in a clear manner. If the evidence was unobtainable for you a 20 second Google search would suffice.

Stop being lazy in life expecting people to spoon feed you. You would do well to remember that
0
Ferrograd
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#24
Report 4 weeks ago
#24
Totally agree.

As mentioned, autistic people are easily led and manipulated. I know a lot of Neo-Nazis are actually autistic, they are led into belieiving such ideologies. You only need to look at the recent story of some guy from Durham who planned attacks, he was autistic as were countless others. greta thunberg also is occupied with her idea of environmentalism. not downplaying autism by the way as i help many people who are autistic and am on the spectrum myself.

Puberty blockers are a terrible idea and should not be offered.
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#25
Report 4 weeks ago
#25
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
The evidence was laid out in a clear manner. If the evidence was unobtainable for you a 20 second Google search would suffice.

Stop being lazy in life expecting people to spoon feed you. You would do well to remember that
No, it wasn’t. If you know something is behind a paywall it’s reasonable to expect people not to be able to access it.

Refusing to do your job for you when you cannot even do the bare minimum isn’t laziness.
1
LiberOfLondon
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#26
Report 4 weeks ago
#26
(Original post by Ferrograd)
You only need to look at the recent story of some guy from Durham who planned attacks, he was autistic as were countless others
Was he now? I got the impression he was a loner with too much access to the internet, from a very right-wing household and who was just a bit unhinged.

Not a psychologist, but I'd say he was probably a psychopath (cf his support for Satanist groups).
0
CoolCavy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#27
Report 4 weeks ago
#27
I think more information needs to be researched around them, they are said to be reversible physically but the impact on brain development is still not entirely understood.

(Original post by princetonalec)
1) The whole point of blockers is to stop the development of secondary sex characteristics. These have already developed at 16: the age for hormone treatment may as well just be lowered to 16 if you're going to argue for puberty blockers to be given at this age.
2) They aren't throwing out blockers like candy to children. Has the system crumbled a little due to being severely underfunded and having an increase in referrals? Yes. But there are still HUGE safe guarding protocols in place for these children to minimise as much damage as possible.
3) On autism and trans people: I am an autistic trans man. The leading theory is more autistic people are trans since we don't understand the strict lines or the strict rules for men and women anyway. An allistic trans man may have had to struggle with expectations of womenhood for his entire life before transitioning, i've never understood why skirts are only for girls and have had no connection to 'womenhood' because its an abstract concept to me. If you want to have a detailed discussion about trans people and autism, there are trans autistic people you can speak to on the subject. Don't just assume young autistic persons are being 'brainwashed' when they're not.
4) As previously mentioned on this thread detransitioning is INCREDIBLY rare, with cases only being easy to find because I would argue most cis people don't think trans people are real. The assumption is that we were brainwashed or we are delusional, and one day we will realise the truth.
There are already safe guards in place for young children, blockers are only effective if provided before puberty, and autistic people are fully realised people who can be trans.
Genuine question because i've always wondered this, if for instance a trans man took them prior to puberty to prevent breast growth i.e mitigating the need for top surgery. Once on testosterone if he had to come off for any reason would the breasts regrow? Or is that only the case during puberty and not when you are into your 20s, 30s etc.
0
Ferrograd
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#28
Report 4 weeks ago
#28
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Was he now? I got the impression he was a loner with too much access to the internet, from a very right-wing household and who was just a bit unhinged.

Not a psychologist, but I'd say he was probably a psychopath (cf his support for Satanist groups).
Well, most of them were loners, but I know he was autistic, not sure about his parents. I knew a kid from my school who was quite autistic who often expressed support for nazis. I've suggested this before on TSR but have been quickly shot down. It's not about autistic people. But autistic people can get pre-occupied on things; I do sometimes, hence why I think the credibility of people like greta thunberg is often shot down
0
SankaraInBloom
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#29
Report 4 weeks ago
#29
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
How do we determine whether somebody is of sound body and mind, those involved in the process seem to disagree with the statement that there are rigourous safeguards, instead suggesting that there are countless misdiagnoses due to fear of being the next target of abuse from the trans lobby. We have to remember here that we aren't talking about popping some pills that might have some uncomfortable side effects but have negligible chance of any long term ill effects like most misdiagnoses, rather courses of treatment that have life changing and irreversible side effects.
Misdiagnoses are few and far between, and where they do occur, the National Health Service holds inquiries and acts accordingly. I think the current process is safeguarded well enough to tackle anything going wrong and to allow the smoothest access to transition without ignoring the wider mental health concerns pertaining to trans individuals, such as dysphoria-related depression.
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#30
Report 4 weeks ago
#30
Are there any dangers attached to puberty blockers? If not I’m not sure I see the harm as long as transitions are happening after 18 still...
0
Saracen's Fez
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#31
Report 4 weeks ago
#31
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
Stop being lazy in life expecting people to spoon feed you. You would do well to remember that
If you're not prepared to spoon-feed people, don't expect them to vote for your items.
0
quirky editor
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#32
Report 4 weeks ago
#32
Nay the petitioner does not seem well informed on the issue. The whole point of puberty blockers is to stop puberty until an age where people are old enough to decide to transition. They are not proven to have any serious negative affects.
5
Mad_Dog_Graveson
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#33
Report 4 weeks ago
#33
I think they should ban children from transitioning altogether.
1
Jammy Duel
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#34
Report 4 weeks ago
#34
(Original post by SankaraInBloom)
Misdiagnoses are few and far between, and where they do occur, the National Health Service holds inquiries and acts accordingly. I think the current process is safeguarded well enough to tackle anything going wrong and to allow the smoothest access to transition without ignoring the wider mental health concerns pertaining to trans individuals, such as dysphoria-related depression.
How do you know they are few and far between though? The numbers being referred and "treated" have only recently surged, the same goes for the threat of being viciously targeted. Misdiagnosis will not become clear until the point at which the "treatment" fails because it was the wrong one, or the individual realises that actually it was some other problem and they've just ruined their life
0
LiberOfLondon
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#35
Report 4 weeks ago
#35
(Original post by Ferrograd)
I know he was autistic,
Source?
0
shadowdweller
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#36
Report 4 weeks ago
#36
(Original post by Noodlzzz)
There is also a lot in the media about de-transitioning. There is a psychological finding called 'the end of history illusion' whereby people believe that their current self is stable and who they really are, and that their old self is their old self. Psychological speaking, who we identify as who we are now isn't a stable concept, despite how it might feel as such. Wondering if the two are related?
It's worth noting that the actual figures on this are currently that 0.09% of people 'detransition'.
3
Noodlzzz
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#37
Report 4 weeks ago
#37
(Original post by shadowdweller)
It's worth noting that the actual figures on this are currently that 0.09% of people 'detransition'.
interesting! thank you!
1
shadowdweller
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#38
Report 4 weeks ago
#38
After a bit of a hassle trying to read the article, it's usage in the OP appears to be misleading - puberty blockers are mentioned once in the entire article, and the context is:

"Some youngsters were referred for puberty-blocking hormones — which are usually followed at 16 by cross-sex hormones causing irreversible change and lower fertility — after just one session, the report says. The trust denied this."

The long-term damage context is actually only mentioned here:

"England’s only NHS gender clinic for children is exposing young patients to 'long-term damage' because of its 'inability to stand up to the pressure' from 'highly politicised' campaigners and families demanding fast-track gender transition, some of its own doctors say."

Reading through the remainder of it suggests that the concerns actually stem from it being diagnosed too quickly, or in cases where it shouldn't be, not that beta blockers cause lasting damage.

Is over-diagnosis a concern? Yes. Is the solution here to ban something that was mentioned once in a barely related context? No. There are things to investigate here, certainly, but the approach suggested in this petition is not the way to go in the slightest, and is not even supported by the article it references. If people want to look into whether over-diagnosis is a concern, that's something I would support - not necessarily because I believe it's happening, but because having a definitive answer there would settle the ongoing debates on the matter.
1
princetonalec
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#39
Report 4 weeks ago
#39
(Original post by CoolCavy)
I think more information needs to be researched around them, they are said to be reversible physically but the impact on brain development is still not entirely understood.



Genuine question because i've always wondered this, if for instance a trans man took them prior to puberty to prevent breast growth i.e mitigating the need for top surgery. Once on testosterone if he had to come off for any reason would the breasts regrow? Or is that only the case during puberty and not when you are into your 20s, 30s etc.
Provided the trans man still has ovaries should he go off testosterone it would be expected that, should enough time pass between being medicated and being unmediated, he would go through puberty.
The easiest way to view hormones is as a second puberty. Should the hormones be blocked then the trans man would not go through his "first" puberty as most people designated female at birth would, but should he be taken off these hormones without having corrective surgery then he would.
Also - should he be taken off hormones with having corrective surgery it would put his health at serious risk, but it would be reasonable to assume he would not develop secondary sex characteristics typical of people designated female at birth.
I hope this answers your question! Some trans men come off hormones so that they can naturally conceive children, in which case they would begin regular menstruation. But notably if they had their breasts removed already they would not grow back once again (otherwise we would probably have an infinite supply of breast tissue in a medical waste landfill somewhere).
0
SankaraInBloom
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#40
Report 4 weeks ago
#40
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
How do you know they are few and far between though? The numbers being referred and "treated" have only recently surged, the same goes for the threat of being viciously targeted. Misdiagnosis will not become clear until the point at which the "treatment" fails because it was the wrong one, or the individual realises that actually it was some other problem and they've just ruined their life
But plainly speaking, in the vast, vast majority of cases where a trans person has transitioned, they are fairly happy with their transition and once they've received the necessary counselling for the remnants of dysphoria-related mental health issues, they get on with their lives, relatively happy and healthy. Increased depression and suicide rates in most cases come from delays in the process or long standing mental issues which were exacerbated by dysphoria.
1
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

People at uni: do initiations (like heavy drinking) put you off joining sports societies?

Yes (479)
66.44%
No (242)
33.56%

Watched Threads

View All