M577 – Contempt of Parliament Motion 2020 Watch

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Connor27
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#41
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#41
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
If you took the time to write legislation instead of ****ging Rakas off because you hate Sovereign Wealth Funds (which is quite strange, given that they allow HM Gov't to make money without taxes and are the sort of thing Ayn Rand would have loved) then the Party would be in a better state.

I'm not leaving the Libers, partly because I'm essentialy the last person in the Party and partly because I still feel loyal to it after all the cockups we've been through. I'm not going to stage a VoNC either, because we need a leader, someone to post on the Other Place and someone to take a count of the votes, which I don't have the time to do. The reason I'm posting this is as a public statement that I believe you have failed us as a leader, and it is your petty minded bickering with Rakas and the Tories over the last time they governed and a defecit that you still harp on about (and try and drag newbies like me into harping on with you) that loses us votes and puts Loony Lefties in power.

Expel me from the Party if you want. Just remember that most Libertarian bills were written by me and that you seem to have done sweet bugger all in the subforum of late besides post ”aye”, ***** about the lack of notes and ask Andrew to send it to division. If you want to drive the last nail into our coffin, be my guest.

Rakas21 - please take this as an apology for my earlier remarks about your past government. I retract them and they were made in the heat of the moment and fuelled by misinformation from Jammy Duel.

The House has the authority to act as any devolved body as per the Second Canon Amendment.
Hear hear!

The honourable member is fantastic at his role and is a model member of my former Party - I agree that Jammy Duel’s personal vendettas and petty cantankerous attitude is holding right wing parties back and his implied support for this shambolic government is shameful.
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Saracen's Fez
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Aph)
Unless you’re arguing that the votes of English members of this house don’t count?
:yes: On Welsh affairs
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Connor27
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#43
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#43
(Original post by BosslyGaming)
So do you believe that it is compulsory for the government to act on motions? I'm struggling to see anything setting that ruling? My point is that you claim contempt for something that the government has not broken any rules or regulations by doing - not in the MHoC and not in real life. You can't just claim something is contempt because you don't like it. I would consider a loose definition for contempt of parliament to be something that obstructs a member, or the house, from carrying out their dutes, or generally something that interferes with house proceedings. The government's behaviour does neither of those things. So, ultimately, my question is why the government is in contempt of parliament? Do you believe that inaction on a motion is contempt? If so could you point out any scenarios in the past where a UK government (on TSR or otherwise) have been found in contempt of parliament for that reason, especially when plenty of motions have indeed not been acted upon.
Theresa May’s government was literally held in contempt for failing to abide by a motion which requested the release of Brexit related documents.
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BosslyGaming
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Connor27)
It is contempt not just because of your refusal to do it; ministers have also dodged questions on the matter and showed nothing but apathy towards the will of this House, that is very much contempt.
My Rt Hon. Friend the Prime Minister stated yesterday that the government would not legislate on it and that the prosposers were free to do so themselves. After being questioned again on the issue today, both the Prime Minister and the Infrastructure Secretary confirmed the same thing. The question has been answered, you just don't seem to like the answer.
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Baron of Sealand
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#45
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#45
(Original post by BosslyGaming)
So do you believe that it is compulsory for the government to act on motions? I'm struggling to see anything setting that ruling? My point is that you claim contempt for something that the government has not broken any rules or regulations by doing - not in the MHoC and not in real life. You can't just claim something is contempt because you don't like it. I would consider a loose definition for contempt of parliament to be something that obstructs a member, or the house, from carrying out their dutes, or generally something that interferes with house proceedings. The government's behaviour does neither of those things. So, ultimately, my question is why the government is in contempt of parliament? Do you believe that inaction on a motion is contempt? If so could you point out any scenarios in the past where a UK government (on TSR or otherwise) have been found in contempt of parliament for that reason, especially when plenty of motions have indeed not been acted upon.
I have already responded to this and Connor has said what I would have repeated myself on.
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Jammy Duel
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Baron of Sealand)
And parliament has the right to begin holding the government in contempt for it. Do you believe a government should operate like this?
Motions are non-binding, if governments were found in contempt for not complying with non-binding motions IRL they'd be found in contempt every other week. Contempt of parliament requires either interference/abuse of Parliamentary privilege or obstructing the house in its business, ignoring a motion is neither.

Has the government interfered with Parliamentary privilege? No
Has it intentionally misled the house? No
Has it refused to make testminory or produce documents? No
Has it attempted to influence members by bribe or threat? No

All it has done is disagreed with the house.
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Aph
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
:yes: On Welsh affairs
Just to confirm, you are saying that whilst this house may act as the Welsh Assembly, and regardless of IRL legislation act for it or exercise it's power, the votes of members of this House who are IRL English, or just not-welsh, don't count on those items?
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BosslyGaming
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Connor27)
Theresa May’s government was literally held in contempt for failing to abide by a motion which requested the release of Brexit related documents.
I would argue that the reason for contempt there was that it obstructed parliament from carrying out its duties - as the legal advice in those documents was critical to any vote on the Withdrawal Agreement. Inaction on the Airport motion does no such thing.
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BosslyGaming
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Baron of Sealand)
I have already responded to this and Connor has said what I would have repeated myself on.
Note my response to Connor then.
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Jammy Duel
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Connor27)
Theresa May’s government was literally held in contempt for failing to abide by a motion which requested the release of Brexit related documents.
That wasn't a motion, it was a Humble Address, further the contempt vote was questionably legitimate given and even if it was legitimate was entirely a stunt, just like this motion.
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Miss Maddie
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Connor27)
It is contempt not just because of your refusal to do it; ministers have also dodged questions on the matter and showed nothing but apathy towards the will of this House, that is very much contempt.
Shame you're party isn't perfect then. I did some reading

April 2018 a Tory TSR government refused to create a Fair Food Act to give free food to people as was the will of the house.
July 2018 a Tory TSR government refused to create money management education scheme as was the will of house.
January 2019 a Tory TSR government refused to address the need for cleaner working conditions and more cycle lanes as was the will of the house.

There you are being outraged about a government ignoring a motion

What's that saying about glass houses? It's slipped my mind :cool:
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Jammy Duel
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Connor27)
Hear hear!

The honourable member is fantastic at his role and is a model member of my former Party - I agree that Jammy Duel’s personal vendettas and petty cantankerous attitude is holding right wing parties back and his implied support for this shambolic government is shameful.
Do we need to bring up your own record, or how about your own vendettas, this motion being one of them?
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Baron of Sealand
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Motions are non-binding, if governments were found in contempt for not complying with non-binding motions IRL they'd be found in contempt every other week. Contempt of parliament requires either interference/abuse of Parliamentary privilege or obstructing the house in its business, ignoring a motion is neither.

Has the government interfered with Parliamentary privilege? No
Has it intentionally misled the house? No
Has it refused to make testminory or produce documents? No
Has it attempted to influence members by bribe or threat? No

All it has done is disagreed with the house.
NOW it is disagreeing with the House. Earlier it was completely ignoring the House.
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Connor27
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
Shame you're party isn't perfect then. I did some reading

April 2018 a Tory TSR government refused to create a Fair Food Act to give free food to people as was the will of the house.
July 2018 a Tory TSR government refused to create money management education scheme as was the will of house.
January 2019 a Tory TSR government refused to address the need for cleaner working conditions and more cycle lanes as was the will of the house.

There you are being outraged about a government ignoring a motion

What's that saying about glass houses? It's slipped my mind :cool:
I would remind the member that I was not a member of the Conservative Party during any of those items; she should know, seeing as she was being led by me in the Libertarian Party at that time.

Personally I disagree with the prior administrations actions in refusing to address those motions, however members of the house at that time were perfectly allowed to bring forward a contempt motion then as we are doing now.
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Jammy Duel
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Baron of Sealand)
NOW it is disagreeing with the House. Earlier it was completely ignoring the House.
And neither is contemptuous
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Connor27
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
And neither is contemptuous
Your definition of contempt are merely guidelines, Parliament is sovereign and it is up to parliament to determine what is and isn’t contempt, hence the upcoming vote on this motion.
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Jammy Duel
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Connor27)
Your definition of contempt are merely guidelines, Parliament is sovereign and it is up to parliament to determine what is and isn’t contempt, hence the upcoming vote on this motion.
And every day your stunts continue is another day that the airport remains nationalised, all because you're too chicken to do anything more than write petty motions
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Miss Maddie
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Connor27)
I would remind the member that I was not a member of the Conservative Party during any of those items; she should know, seeing as she was being led by me in the Libertarian Party at that time.

Personally I disagree with the prior administrations actions in refusing to address those motions, however members of the house at that time were perfectly allowed to bring forward a contempt motion then as we are doing now.
You didn't kick up a fuss then (unsure if you did about the earlier ones). Why act up now? Why allow your current party to display their hypocrisy and peddle this contempt call?

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Get over yourself and do something productive. Go have ****, eat some cake, watch TV, do whatever, just put down the keyboard and return when the pettiness has gone
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Jammy Duel
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
You didn't kick up a fuss then (unsure if you did about the earlier ones). Why act up now? Why allow your current party to display their hypocrisy and peddle this contempt call?

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Get over yourself and do something productive. Go have ****, eat some cake, watch TV, do whatever, just put down the keyboard and return when the pettiness has gone
That would mean retirement, and the search for titles overrules that
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Bailey14
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#60
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#60
Several times, Her Majesty’s Government have made it clear of our position on the matter. The proposers of the original motion in question have the right to bring forward legislation on the subject of Cardiff Airport and the legislation will be scrutinised in the normal way.

The motion was non-binding and does not force Her Majesty’s Government to take a course of action. The Labour Party is against privatisation in all forms and has made it clear, we will not back down on this principle - and never will.

Bring forward a bill on the matter and it shall be debated and voted on.

I will vote against this contempt motion.
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