The Student Room Group

Row over white fashion models' cornrow wings

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Original post by the beer
Comme Des Garçons banned cornrows in school?

Yes, it is a little known fact that the Japanese fashion label holds enormous power over the dress code for global schools :yep:
Original post by princetonalec
It would be classified as cultural appropriation, because it's the opposite of cultural appreciation.
Put simply: if these things weren't so, if people weren't made to remove their braids to please employers, schools, or institutions there wouldn't be an issue with the use of dreads by white persons or models.
Right now they're seen as a form of empowerment, almost (though not directly analogous) like reclaiming a slur.
Think about how, for years, many gay persons decided that they would intentionally "act more gay" as a form of rebellion, because it would be expected for them to not act in such a way. Likewise, for many black persons, having cornrows is not only a protective hairstyle but is a form of protest.
To have the thing you are mocked for and now using as protest taken by the very people who seemingly repeatedly tell you to remove them is cultural appropriation, because they don't understand the significance that it holds. Thats why there is a distinct difference between (for example) buying native American art from native Americans, or buying native American art from persons who have no connection to the culture. One is a form of supporting the people who made it, making an active effort to understand their needs, and the other is buying it because it's cheap or just simply cute.
So, this is technically cultural appropriation for the reasons mentioned above.
Also, I don't think its right for a work place to say a hairstyle which protects an ethnic groups form of hair texture is inherently unprofessional. Tattoos and piercings? Understandable. A hair texture they can't control which either requires a protective style, sometimes hundreds of pounds of products, or shaving? I think it's unreasonable.

But I think your optics are in the wrong place. This isn't "black people aren't allowed to wear cornrows vs white people are (and are celebrated for it)" it's "wearing cornrows at school/work isn't allowed vs wearing them on the cat walk is."

If white people were allowed to wear cornrows at school/work etc and black people weren't then that would be double standards and racist. But nobody (at the places where they're banned) is allowed to wear them. And both black and white people were wearing them on the cat walk. (and if anything, it was the white people who looked dreadful!)

I agree that banning braids full stop is inherently unfair because more black people need braids due to their naturally curlier hair, so banning it would disproportionately affect black people. But again, what does that have to do with cultural appropriation? It's just being inconsiderate and ignorant. And a company should (as unreasonable as it is) be allowed to ban them if they want.

That's the first time I've heard that black people wear braids as a form of protest and empowerment. Do you know all of them? None of the black people I know care about that; it's just their style. And I don't mock them, I think they look good.

And who says black people "own" braids and cornrows? Sure they may need it more due to their curly hair type but evidence shows that braids have been going on across the world for thousands of years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornrows and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid#Human_hair_braiding).
Nobody owns their culture, it diffuses naturally. It's the connections to it that differ. And that's ok, not something to prevent.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by frantika
But I think your optics are in the wrong place. This isn't "black people aren't allowed to wear cornrows vs white people are (and are celebrated for it)" it's "wearing cornrows at school/work isn't allowed vs wearing them on the cat walk is."

If white people were allowed to wear cornrows at school/work etc and black people weren't then that would be double standards and racist. But nobody (at the places where they're banned) is allowed to wear them. And both black and white people were wearing them on the cat walk. (and if anything, it was the white people who looked dreadful!)

I agree that banning braids full stop is inherently unfair because more black people need braids due to their naturally curlier hair, so banning it would disproportionately affect black people. But again, what does that have to do with cultural appropriation? It's just being inconsiderate and ignorant. And a company should (as unreasonable as it is) be allowed to ban them if they want.

That's the first time I've heard that black people wear braids as a form of protest and empowerment. Do you know all of them? None of the black people I know care about that; it's just their style. And I don't mock them, I think they look good.

And who says black people "own" braids and cornrows? Sure they may need it more due to their curly hair type but evidence shows that braids have been going on across the world for thousands of years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornrows and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid#Human_hair_braiding).
Nobody owns their culture, it diffuses naturally. It's the connections to it that differ. And that's ok, not something to prevent.

I don't recall making any judgements as to whether the argument is correct, black people "own" them, or anything of the sort.
I just explained to you what cultural appropriation is and why people may feel like that. Never said it was correct or incorrect, so I don't see why you're trying to turn this into a debate?
My comment served the purpose of providing potential light on the issue, thats about it. If you want to discuss this I suggest you take it up with someone who has a horse in the race, and not some white guy who did his best to explain in one message about 50 years of social attitudes.
Hope you have a good day.
Original post by the beer
Comme Des Garçons banned cornrows in school?

If you could show me where I said they did that would be absolutely fantastic.
Like I said in another comment, I never said the attitudes I explained were factually correct, I just simply explained the attitude.
Original post by princetonalec
I don't recall making any judgements as to whether the argument is correct, black people "own" them, or anything of the sort.
I just explained to you what cultural appropriation is and why people may feel like that. Never said it was correct or incorrect, so I don't see why you're trying to turn this into a debate?
My comment served the purpose of providing potential light on the issue, thats about it. If you want to discuss this I suggest you take it up with someone who has a horse in the race, and not some white guy who did his best to explain in one message about 50 years of social attitudes.
Hope you have a good day.

I just thought you were knowledgeable on it so I wanted to understand it more. I still think it's a completely vacuous non-issue that is somehow headline news. You have a nice day/night too.
(edited 4 years ago)
The left say the right is on the rise and can't understand why people are voting that way.
This **** is why people are leaving the left and voting that way. People have had enough of it
Original post by Just my opinion
The left say the right is on the rise and can't understand why people are voting that way.
This **** is why people are leaving the left and voting that way. People have had enough of it

Far-left: "white straight men are the worst people in the world and shouldn't be allowed to do anything"
White straight men: *vote for parties on the right*
Far-left: *surprised pikachu face*
Original post by frantika
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51166873

Forts? Is this a complete non-issue that again finds itself on the front pages of the news?

cultural appropriation is another issue that causes way too many arguments. I don't get a simple hairstyle could be seen as offensive?
I used to be left wing, now I’m a Nazi (according to the Left).
Reply 49
Original post by Occitanie
I used to be left wing, now I’m a Nazi (according to the Left).

:fuhrer:
Reply 50
Original post by LiberOfLondon
Ditto for Gender Studies.

You may have heard of the Central European University and their leading role in developing and promoting them around the world, I can't go any further into it because of the accusations of being a conspiracy theorist and all that...:biggrin:

The environment and racism were also predominant in their body of studies but most central of all was the theme of Open Societies/No Borders and there we have it: bundle them all together and it's the BBC/Guardian all over. It's important to notice that the CEU was not founded (and funded) in order to make money but rather to invest in apostles to spread the gospel around the earth. To make the world a better place, as BBC luvvies say.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 51
Original post by Just my opinion
The left say the right is on the rise and can't understand why people are voting that way.

True lefties (ie: the Momentum type) will never understand why people vote the other way, couldn't do it if they tried. Don't they always put it down to some genetic malfunction, whereas we only regard them as short-sighted?
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 52
Original post by frantika
I still think it's a completely vacuous non-issue that is somehow headline news.

Why is it news at the BBC, you mean? I've explained that above somewhere.
Original post by z-hog
You may have heard of the Central European University and their leading role in developing and promoting them around the world, I can't go any further into it because of the accusations of being a conspiracy theorist and all that...:biggrin:

The environment and racism were also predominant in their body of studies but most central of all was the theme of Open Societies/No Borders and there we have it: bundle them all together and it's the BBC/Guardian all over. It's important to notice that the CEU was not founded (and funded) in order to make money but rather to invest in apostles to spread the gospel around the earth. To make the world a better place, as BBC luvvies say.

Wikipedia
CEU was founded in 1991 by hedge fund manager, political activist, and philanthropist George Soros, who provided the university with an $880 million endowment, making the university one of the wealthiest in Europe.[1] A central tenet of the university's mission is the promotion of open societies.

Colour me unsurprised.
Original post by AHoek10
No - cultural appropriation is real and an issue. It deserves to be called out like this.

Please explain how it's not racist to attempt to prevent others from copying from another "culture".

What next? Requiring restaurants to have only employees from the countries of the cuisine that they serve? Madness.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 55
Original post by LiberOfLondon
Colour me unsurprised.

I thought you might look it up.
Original post by RogerOxon
Please explain how it's not racist to attempt to prevent others from copying from another "culture".

What next? Requiring restaurants to have only employees from the countries of the cuisine that they serve? Madness.

It is madness. The Chinese restaurant near me only employed Chinese staff. And when they had a vacancy it was only posted in a chinese language and asking for Chinese staff ( google translate!).
Of course they ended up in trouble
Can’t win nowadays. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t
Original post by princetonalec
so I don't see why you're trying to turn this into a debate?


You do realise this is the "Debate & Current Affairs" Forum?
I wonder what European hair looked like 1000 or 2000 years ago? No fancy salons then, so I guess they just let it grow and if it twisted and became matted they had a form of dreadlocks, and its not hard to imagine they're soon moved on to having some form of cornrows... Just a thought.
Original post by DiddyDecAlt
You do realise this is the "Debate & Current Affairs" Forum?

Oh I do, but when I started my post saying 'this is for clarity on why some people may feel this way' I didn't view myself as entering a debate so much as just giving more information to fuel it.

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